upcoming 2012 changes

Planepower

Active Member
^^
Always good input.
I put a list together so we can make an agenda and discuss here (ammend, delete, or add as neccessary). We have 4 weeks, so this is a good forum to bring forth new ideas. We can formalize later and vote at the AGM.
 

Ryno

Active Member
i would like to add one more point that I would like to be brought up at the AGM(then Im done I swear haha)

I would like the idea of turning the Novice Class into a class that you need to be promoted from instead of a class that you are just allowed to leave after 4 race heats. I know I am going to meet alot of opposition on this one.

I dont believe that just simply competing in 4 heats is enough race experience to simply be allowed to leave that class. There of course some exceptions but for the most part guys and girls are leaving novice and jumping into a shark tank called intermediate 600ss.

As I understand it from talking to the guys who came up from Calgary this year( Calgary guys on the forum please comment), they are told based on lap times and performance when they can move up. Guys who were racing novice when they came here for the WCC, were promoted to intermediate by their clubs by round five and raced intermediate here.

Now obviously if you can get on your bike and run 1:03's right off the get go then you are going to get promoted right away, but if you are running at the back of the novice grid running consistant 1:08's or 1:09's you might not be ready to move up.

I don't think its a issue of speed difference causing a issue of safety on the track, but I do be lieve that riders who moved up to quickly this season began riding above their ability and to quote Casey Stoner " ambition outweighed skill". While you do need to chase riders who are faster too improve, this should be done in race setting that isnt a feeding frenzy going into turn 2. If you are a guy who runs 1:09's in novice and gets a great start you will be mid pack in intermediate riding with guys who are way above your skill level, and at that point adrenaline and competativness kicks in and before you know it you are riding above your head, and the chance of getting hurt greatly increases.

I bring up red 114 earlier this season, he got into a situation where he was riding with guys who were faster and were riding above his skill level, he pushed to hard to keep up and had a nasty crash that put him in the hospital( of course that is just my view on the crash, nothing against him, he is a awesome guy and I really look forward to racing with him next season :) ) Two other novices that moved up as soon as they could also were in crashes that damaged their bikes quite badly.

I would just like too see a better promotion system set up( similar from going from intermediate to expert or amatuer to pro). I feel this would develop riders in a better way to move into far more competative classes and as a club promote a new design of racer develompent.

Again I know everyone is not going to agree with me, but it is a issue that I'd like to see have some disscussion wether a change happens or not.
 

Fireman

Well-Known Member
Colin, the novice class was introduced for one reason. To allow riders the opportunity to get some experience before moving into the main grids. This has been a successful class that has helped us maintain the safety that the EMRA enjoys now.

As it sits now, we have riders who do not want to move up. Ever actually. They also don't want more competition in their classes or to ride with faster riders.

This is tough to deal with as a club, as there is the need to constantly move up faster riders within the ranks in order to give the slower riders the ability to succeed and thus move up (usually not by choice initially). Doing this type of classification and promotion would not only give us another way of running into promotional issues as a club, but also give us another way of diluting down the grids in which we currently have.


So in a nutshell:

  1. Movement between novice and intermediate is about safety and maturity.
  2. Movement from intermediate to expert is about skills and speed.
  3. Filling up grids makes the racing more exciting and validates the classes for riders, sponsors and race fans.
 
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oldskool

Active Member
5 year old machines in sportsman just isn't right. I like the class and appreciate the fact that it is generally a safe, curtious, less competitive, gentlemanly class without the 'chomp at the bit', agressive nature of the more competitive race classes. No more need to tweak the rules in sportsman than there is to manipulate and mess with the other 2-3 classes that are running at the same time. There is always 10-15 bikes grided for the combined classes. I could understand a need to change it to 7-8 year old machines......maybe........ if it were to be run as it's own event, but it's not. I think you would be eliminating the class. How many of you that will make a vote on this issue will have it effect your racing (personaly) in anyway? I planned on 'racing' a 99 YZF R7 next year. Do you have a machine you'd like to come play with?
 

YZF1000jon

Well-Known Member
How many of you that will make a vote on this issue will have it effect your racing (personaly) in anyway?

ME!! :D

I planned on 'racing' a 99 YZF R7 next year. Do you have a machine you'd like to come play with?

It'll be good to see you out there again (nice choice of machinery), Mr Sushinsky will be out there more often on his R6 and possibly the TZ so there may be a couple more fast guys.

If there was a large enough Sportsman grid, the only change I would propose would be the Expert/Intermediate split we see in most other classes. However if we still only see 1/2 dozen in the grid, that makes as much sense as the Heavyweight/lightweight split we used to have and got rid of a few years ago.
 
Three pages and nobody's mentioned paddock girls and cheerleaders? Bah!

if you are running at the back of the novice grid running consistant 1:08's or 1:09's you might not be ready to move up.

I dunno, lots of intermediate races had backmarkers. From what I saw, many of those riders didn't seem to be a safety issue at all. They were predictable it seemed and the quick guys were able to get around them without issue. It seemed to fill out the track a bit and always gave you something interesting to watch. Anyway that's just feedback from someone watching from the sidelines for the time being so obviously it may be different from the perspective of the people actually dodging those guys haha.

Still, there were a couple riders I noticed in some of the races that were genuine safety concerns it seemed. But I think in those cases it was pretty plain and obvious and I don't think changing the whole structure of advancement would be needed to deal with them.
 

JDS

Active Member
I like Scotts idea on SBK. 2 Races which have Ex & Inter riding together. Trophies for Ex & Inter like Hieko said. Last Yr we averaged 8 - 10 riders in each class. Will that change next yr?
How many riders can we legally race in one event?
This could cause some problems for some of the faster Experts. As they will lap some of the slower riders. In a 15 lap race guys running 102's could get lapped by the front runners. I would hate to see a lapper determine the outcome of a race. Especially if the guy being lapped is me :(:mad::eek::)
 

mojobie

Member
Now obviously if you can get on your bike and run 1:03's right off the get go then you are going to get promoted right away, but if you are running at the back of the novice grid running consistant 1:08's or 1:09's you might not be ready to move up.

I've been racing for 3 years. I was always last in every race I ran this year. My best lap time is slightly over 1:12. Should I still be in Novice because I choose to race a Ninja 250?

Hopefully that doesn't come across as too harsh as that was not my intent, but I just want people to keep in mind that not everyone is interested in racing a bike that's even capable of attaining those lap times without serious commitment and skill.
 

fast316

EMRA Executive Member
I like Scotts idea on SBK. 2 Races which have Ex & Inter riding together. Trophies for Ex & Inter like Hieko said. Last Yr we averaged 8 - 10 riders in each class. Will that change next yr?
How many riders can we legally race in one event?
This could cause some problems for some of the faster Experts. As they will lap some of the slower riders. In a 15 lap race guys running 102's could get lapped by the front runners. I would hate to see a lapper determine the outcome of a race. Especially if the guy being lapped is me :(:mad::eek::)

I like the idea too, you bring up a good point running expert and intermediate together, I'd also like to point out those races have sponsorship and decent grid sizes, so should they be combined? Also how do we rearrange the race day schedule to fit an extra superbike race in a way that makes sense?
 

JDS

Active Member
I like the idea too, you bring up a good point running expert and intermediate together, I'd also like to point out those races have sponsorship and decent grid sizes, so should they be combined? Also how do we rearrange the race day schedule to fit an extra superbike race in a way that makes sense?[/QUOTE]

Fast 25 is pretty much the same group that rides SBK.
Call it SBK 1 & have cash payout the same way they did last Yr. I dunno

Question is:
- How many riders are going to come up from Cowtown?
- Are the fast experts going to feel comfortable passing(possibly alot) lappers near the end of a race? If I am getting passed(by the obviously faster riders) I usually give them the line. What if I give the line & cut someone else off who is trying to make a outside line pass?

Faster experts please pipe in.

It will make the SBK race more entertaining to watch. Which brings up another point. I like watching those races. Hmmm:confused:
 

Planepower

Active Member
Nicely brought up John. Though I doubt very much you would get lapped ;P
Combining expert / int grids in SBK will make for excellent spectating, not to mention freeing up time slots. There seems to be a concencus on making racing entertaining for both competitors and spectators. Changing classes or eliminating classes with poor participation also seems viable, and would also free up the schedule.
 

Tanner199

New Member
Hi guys,

Great discussion going on here. I just saw a couple posts speculating on the amount of CMRA riders that were planning to come and race with the EMRA.

From discussions I have had, I would say consistently you could expect 10 to 20 racers from calgary. I think the highest could be 30, I have talked to racers who said they may do the odd round. This would be a healthy mix of novice,amateur and experts with varying displacements.

The boys and I from redline will be there to play every weekend! :D

Hope this helps,

Tanner
 

Ryno

Active Member
I've been racing for 3 years. I was always last in every race I ran this year. My best lap time is slightly over 1:12. Should I still be in Novice because I choose to race a Ninja 250?

Hopefully that doesn't come across as too harsh as that was not my intent, but I just want people to keep in mind that not everyone is interested in racing a bike that's even capable of attaining those lap times without serious commitment and skill.

No offense taken, and I agree with you that after racing for 3 years, you clearly wouldn't be a novice, and that's why I had previously said that there would be exceptions :)
 

Ducbert

Active Member
  • As much as I like the idea of SBK 1 and 2, SBK 1 would be more like senior open without the seniors! :rolleyes:
  • Raising senior open age :D
  • Grids under 10 bikes = blah, but grids close to 30 = chaos
  • Sportsman to remain as is 10yr+
  • Vintage fall into Sportsman
  • Stock open class - Every bike regardless size and rider skill (Int/Exp) is on a stock bike: ie stock motor(mapping allowed), no bazzazz TC, no quick shift or any other technical gagdets that aid the rider. :rolleyes:
 

fast316

EMRA Executive Member
I think about 3 years ago, I could be wrong, the senior open age limit was dropped to 35 in order to get more riders in the class.

Also plenty of bikes come stock these days with rider aids, traction control, quick shift, anti wheelie etc. That is why, for example, last year quick shifters were allowed into some classes.
 

oldskool

Active Member
The most pathetic grid last year was exp. 600. Why has no one suggested doing away with it or manipulating the rules for it? Seriously let's be fair here....ffs.

I turn 35 in December and want to race senior open. I hope some of the young guys will vote against up-ing the age to 40. You might not want to race the event this year or next......but do you really want to have to wait 5-10-15 years for the opertunity to play in what seems to be a fun class. I probably won't be racing in another 5 years. What's the motive for raising the age anyhow? The fact that there is a large number of participants on all kinds of machinery with large varing degrees of skill level is what I find attractive (I'm sure the spectators do too). Do you want a smaller grid for some reason? as you support getting rid of the other classes with smaller grids? Wow! That would be a contradiction.

Hey Heiko how about no more comments from you, they all seem to mess with my intentions for racing next year. Two superbike races doesn't screw anyone, f-ing with the age restrictions in senior open and sportsman does.......think about it. How about a vote to do away with 750's? Yea, let's just ban them from eligibility in any of the classes.......you know cause that's in yours and MY best interests............LOOK OUT FOR NUMBER 1!
 

oldskool

Active Member
In a 15 lap race guys running 102's could get lapped by the front runners. I would hate to see a lapper determine the outcome of a race. Especially if the guy being lapped is me :(:mad::eek::)

I would love it. The spectators would love it. Other racers I've spoken with would love it.

The problem is, it just won't happen untill 103 and 104 riders are running in expert, and only in a 15 lap race.

If the best expert could muster a 59.2 average lap it would put his total time at 14.8 minutes to finish the race. (This would realistically account for 2-3 58 second laps and some 1 min flat laps (traffic/race start ect.) and the rest in the 59's)

If a slow as all hell expert could only muster a 1:03 average lap it would put his total time at 15.75 minutes to finish. (again, this would allow for a 1:04 here and there and some high 1:02's all averaged out)


A 59.2 average for 15 laps is something no expert has hit.

These are the facts.

There will be no lappers in expert untill the perspective on what times are deemed appropriate for promotion are changed. I don't believe speed should be as much of a factor in promotion as realiability, consistancy, and maturity. Otherwise, why would we have a couple experts that have never seen a 1:02?? Simply winning a class with no 'fast' competition shouldn't warrant a promotion in my books.
 

Planepower

Active Member
Hey Heiko how about no more comments from you, they all seem to mess with my intentions for racing next year. Two superbike races doesn't screw anyone, f-ing with the age restrictions in senior open and sportsman does.......think about it. How about a vote to do away with 750's? Yea, let's just ban them from eligibility in any of the classes.......you know cause that's in yours and MY best interests............LOOK OUT FOR NUMBER 1!

HAHA Jamie! I only started this thread so we as a club can come up with changes to make us better, im FAR from advocating any of the points i listed (well, except for a race where the field is 5 or less racers on the track). I merely put in point form ideas that have come across from others. Feel free to amend my list. I wanted a format so we can bring an agenda forth to the AGM, discuss and vote; hoping to save time debating issues, plus give our members a forum to come up with ideas, and slam doors shut if need be.

I am up to the challenge of 750 vs 750 ;)
 

Ducbert

Active Member
Screw SBK 1 and let's have a 750 shoot out, love mine!

But make it 750's older then 5 yrs, riders 36yrs of age or older and no one named Jamie is allowed to ride in it......

Kidding, newer 750's allowed......:p
 
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yak

Well-Known Member
I think about 3 years ago, I could be wrong, the senior open age limit was dropped to 35 in order to get more riders in the class.

Sorry Jon, but you are wrong. In 2005 Senior Open allowed 30 year old riders, but since then the age has been 35.
 
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