June 27th Exec Meeting Minutes

M87

M87

Active Member
I believe hiflo and k&n are the same filter without the nut. That's because they are identical right down to the part numbers. There are even a couple of sites where they cut the filters apart and all the internal marking are the same. I have a k&n I would be willing to sacrifice if someone wanted to dissect it next to a Hiflo.
As far as who makes k&n now I don't believe that has changed, its the economy of scale, its always cheaper per unit to make of something. It doesn't make economic sense especially since their profit is made at the wholesale level.
Back to my point which is not to defend k&n, my point is that no aftermarket filter undergoes the scrutiny that OEMs do and no one else has decided to single out one maker as the culprit.
Motoamerica, whose race Kyle Wymans bike caught fire at, decided to alienate all the aftermarket suppliers rather than single out k&n. You think you have a better grasp of the facts than they do?
They banned everyone and until we are sure of our facts we should too.
 
DEFBOY35

DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
I am fine with a blanket ban myself on all aftermarket filters for all bikes. Sucks. I get it. As I said I have a bunch on my shelf
 
SetUpSixRR

SetUpSixRR

EMRA Executive Member
If you have unopened K&N filters you bought from a local dealer they may return them for store credit which you can use to buy OEM filters. Please lets not make this difficult arguing about what other clubs do. We have noticed they are a problem, we have implemented a solution. We wanted to ban all aftermarkets but it was deemed a bit unfair to the members who may have stock piled a few Hi-Flo's or other alternates that don't seem to have the same failure rate as the K&N's.

This decision is a result of an EMRA incident last round where one K&N filter failed on a bike which brought out the black flag (smoking bike) and i believe the race was red flagged shortly after for an unrelated reason and then there were some track inspections that took place to determine if there was spillage. It costs us time, and risks rider safety so this choice to ban the K&N's is a relatively simple, inexpensive and hopefully effective method to prevent a repeat issue.

For the record its not related to what our torque your filters to, or your safety wire job. Its the gasket that is blowing out, and seems to be a common problem with K&N filters only (or at least especially). The gasket fails and allows oil to bypass the seal, which can end up on the track and put people at risk. This type of failure means it may not happen the first ride, or the second ride, it could happen any time during service so the "it would have failed by now" argument doesn't fly. Please make the change, thanks everyone.
 
J

Jason Henton

Active Member
SetUpSixRR said:
If you have unopened K&N filters you bought from a local dealer they may return them for store credit which you can use to buy OEM filters. Please lets not make this difficult arguing about what other clubs do. We have noticed they are a problem, we have implemented a solution. We wanted to ban all aftermarkets but it was deemed a bit unfair to the members who may have stock piled a few Hi-Flo's or other alternates that don't seem to have the same failure rate as the K&N's.

This decision is a result of an EMRA incident last round where one K&N filter failed on a bike which brought out the black flag (smoking bike) and i believe the race was red flagged shortly after for an unrelated reason and then there were some track inspections that took place to determine if there was spillage. It costs us time, and risks rider safety so this choice to ban the K&N's is a relatively simple, inexpensive and hopefully effective method to prevent a repeat issue.

For the record its not related to what our torque your filters to, or your safety wire job. Its the gasket that is blowing out, and seems to be a common problem with K&N filters only (or at least especially). The gasket fails and allows oil to bypass the seal, which can end up on the track and put people at risk. This type of failure means it may not happen the first ride, or the second ride, it could happen any time during service so the "it would have failed by now" argument doesn't fly. Please make the change, thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

So just for clarification, Was the aforementioned incident due to gasket failure? Most, if not all, of the failed K&N issues that I have heard of, are from the safety wire hole. If we are seeing a high number of gasket failures, maybe this is due to something else, such as improper installation? Perhaps a friendly mechanic could do a writeup on proper installation techniques and post this along with the tech rule change so that all persons are made aware before next round? Also, Shouldn't there be some grace period for such a tech change? Not everyone is on the forums, or reads each monthly meeting, and I doubt as many are capable of buying/changing a filter last minute at the track to get through tech.
 
DEFBOY35

DEFBOY35

Well-Known Member
Being that we have had an incident that could have caused injury and lost time I don't think we can afford a "grace" period with this as the next one could happen at any time and be catastrophic.
This is where word of mouth to those who do not frequent forums and such will come into play as well I believe we have options with the new registration system as well to get the word out. David or Blam would have to confirm that though.
 
T

the_fornicator

Active Member
In keeping with the shark fin rule a couple years ago, nobody had sustained any injuries directly relating to a lack of a shark fin guard during an EMRA round, but I think people would have felt stupid arguing against a safety ruling. Who would argue against a safety measure?

I feel that this oil filter ruling is in people's best interest. Club isn't making any money off of the decision and have been empowered to look after racers' best interest as much as some people may disagree.

0 is not enough and 1 is too much. It's a damned if you do/damned if you don't scenario. I think the club would rather be dammed for doing so while having 0 incidents related to the issue behind the decision.
 
blam

blam

Administrator
DEFBOY35 said:
This is where word of mouth to those who do not frequent forums and such will come into play as well I believe we have options with the new registration system as well to get the word out. David or Blam would have to confirm that though.
Click to expand...

We can easily email every member with a race license using the new system. or even email every racer that is signed up for round 4.
 
Fireman

Fireman

Well-Known Member
Hi Flo meets TUV standards and meets or exceeds all oem specs.

I currently have vortex. Hi Flo and stock filters in my shop for the race bike. And I have a fresh hi Flo on the bike for UMC where the speeds will be nearly 300kph. I have zero doubt about them.

There has been no other reports of failure besides kn filters to my knowledge. Can anyone offer information that would suggest otherwise?
 
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C

Cdw46

Member
fast316 said:
LOL I'm sorry, not sorry, you feel that way. I'm not here to argue either, see you at the track next round with a fresh new oil filter ***HIGH FIVE ALL AROUND***
Click to expand...
Obviously leaking oil is a safety issue. I am not convinced that k and n s are more prone to it than anything else. That's what I meant. I'm sure there have been failures on every brand out there, and plenty of improperIy installed filters of all brands. I said I was changing the filter, I don't have to agree with the rule change. Don't understand the point of talking shit and sarcasm
 
Fireman

Fireman

Well-Known Member
Cdw46 said:
Obviously leaking oil is a safety issue. I am not convinced that k and n s are more prone to it than anything else. That's what I meant. I'm sure there have been failures on every brand out there, and plenty of improperIy installed filters of all brands. I said I was changing the filter, I don't have to agree with the rule change. Don't understand the point of talking shit and sarcasm
Click to expand...


The K and N oil filters have a reputation for failing. These rules are coming from issues which we have seen within our club as well as other clubs and organizations. A quick google search will help you see why it is such a issue.
 
majikx

majikx

Active Member
Lol.. it always gets me that there is people out there who have to argue points. I'm not saying I believe or dobt believe that k n n or hi Flo, or others are better or worse then any others.. but when there has been issues with guys loosing oil and not only taking thier safety, but the safety of others in jeopardy there shouldn't even be a discussion.

If you want to go out on track by yourself with a crap filter (and I do think in my opinion that other then oem they are all crap, hi Flo isn't any better, guys just cheap out saving maybe 3-4 dollars a piece) and crash and hurt yourself and wreck your bike that's fine by me. However once you are on the track with others and your actions and penny pinching have a direct effect on the rest of us, there is a problem. I fully believe that if someone is found to have neglected maintenance or bought super sub-par parts and those parts fail they should be banned from racing. you are literally taking others safety and lives in your hands when you ride in close competition with others.

This shouldn't even be a discussion with all the "professional I know better" blah blah blah. This is for everyone's safety period. I'm the exec is in charge to keep us safe. Don't argue, just do it.

Mike
 
blam

blam

Administrator
I was under the impression there were failures at the seal as well, not just the nut.
 
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