2021 Rule Change discussion

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations' started by fast316, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. SetUpSixRR

    SetUpSixRR EMRA Executive Member

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    I have complete faith in Brad Gavey being that gate keeper to progress to intermediate, and the plan in 2021 is to give him more responsibility (we all know he can handle it) to really run the novice class and advance their skills. He loves doing it, he has the experience and knowledge, he's big and scary so people listen to him, and he's heavily invested in the success of the club and its racers. His idea to volunteer and help the novice class was a big win win and I'm happy we have moved forward on this. In my opinion, Brad having more control is probably enough and we won't need to create a time barrier for the novices to surpass but of course that debate is what the AGM is for. At least one student was bumped up to intermediate (by mistake) without consulting Brad and he came to me and said "WTF i thought i had a say?" which he does, but it was a mistake on our end. For 2021 he will have more control and i think this will solve that.

    I love the mentor idea, although finding mentors could be a bit tougher but i think thats a great idea. Somewhat like a riders rep. Matt if you would like to help i think you would be a great mentor for lightweight class riders joining the EMRA.

    I'm like the constructive ideas gang, lets keep them coming.
     
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  2. Matt Stokes

    Matt Stokes Member

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    I support Brian's statements above, and I'm happy to help in any way the EMRA Exec see fit.
     
  3. Ducbert

    Ducbert Active Member

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    Myself and Cory Crowe worked with Michael Parker (it just happened more then planned) as someone we would mentor this year and I think it helped, but you can ask him directly on FB. I was hoping to inject a mentor program next year but that all depends on the AGM voting etc. My idea is to have a group of black number riders be available to the novices. They can pit together if they wish, work together, very similar to a big brothers program in the real world etc. The vision is to Bridge the gap between seasoned and novice rider, I know this happens informally to some degree already and what I would like to see is that something like this becomes more of a formal process. This type of mentorship could also be available to intermediates, it would all depend on those who are stepping up to mentor. Lots of options.....
     
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  4. Ducbert

    Ducbert Active Member

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    In regards to the by laws, its best to add a note to the AGM that the by laws will be updated using Alberta's more current by laws and adapt them for change for 2021 AGM. This allows the 2021 exec to work on them for presentation in 2021. There appears to be too many things in the air at this time and it will serve the society better to have a longer look at them........Adding conflict of interest, code of conduct, ethics, terms of reference etc are all policies that can be adapted by the exec themselves over the year. All of these things are important components of a healthy society.
     
  5. DEFBOY35

    DEFBOY35 Well-Known Member

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    I’d like to see some amendments to the bylaws as well bringing them into current times in regards to how members are kept informed as well as their abilities to vote on matters.
    We have the ability now through avenues such as msr to send out notifications via email to inform people of meetings etc in the one week time frame that it is supposed to be.
    As for voting. Especially in a year like this year with social distancing etc being as big a deal as it is. The oh well can’t show up can’t vote mentality is simply unacceptable. There are several avenues to accomplish these tasks. Several of which are used by other clubs such as wmrc and utahsba and have already been proven to work.
     
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  6. Disco Duc

    Disco Duc Member

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    Hey everyone,
    I wanted to put forth a change to the 600 class for 2021.
    I wanted to propose that we allow some of the newer (OEM) 'middleweight' classed bikes into the 600cc classes.
    Dorna, In the World Supersport series (which is primarily 600cc based), have been looking into bringing the displacement levels up as they seem to have lost most of the manufacurers that use to race in the class.
    Honda just lost their last 'Factory' effort, Suzuki has not had a presence (even with the privateers) in a number of years now, Triumph has pulled out, and Kawasaki will only have 2-3 bikes in the 2021 field (that are based on the 2009 platform as the newer bikes are 636cc).
    MV Agusta is running 2-4 of their F3 (675cc) motorcycle (two seperate teams), but probably not an official 'Factory" effort, just as factory 'supported' efforts.
    Dorna has been looking into opening up/changing the displacement rules to avoid having what they call a 'Yamaha Cup'. The rule changes would allow larger displacement bikes to be entered into the class as as many of us all know 'the 600 class is dead' (Even Yamaha announced that they will no longer sell the R6 for the street and now will only be sold as a 'race' bike).
    Triumph 765, Aprilia 660, Ducati V2, MV Agusta F3 800, Kawasaki 636 as well as a few other 'middleweight' bikes have been thrown into the mix.
    In an effort to change with the times, as well as increase the number of bikes on the grid, I would like to propose that we open up the rules and allow the above mentioned bikes into the 600 classes.

    https://www.speedweek.com/ssp/news/167502/Kawasaki-ZX-R6-stirbt-aus-2021-droht-Yamaha-Cup.html

    https://www.speedweek.com/ssp/news/167867/Ducati-und-Triumph-in-Supersport-WM-Probejahr-in-BSB.html
     
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  7. Disco Duc

    Disco Duc Member

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    As the sponsor of the Formula Thunder class, I think that there are quite a few bikes that race in the class and (currently) do not really fit into or are not really competitive the mainstream classes. I'm all for getting more Buell, BMW, MV, KTM, Aprilia etc bikes involved with the class. Maybe I have to offer a bigger incentive to entice more riders to find 'Oddball' thunder type bikes onto the grid. :)
     
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  8. fast316

    fast316 EMRA Executive Member

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    I'd like to see a Superpole Qualifying format at the end of Practice days. Anyone that watches any kind of Superpole Qualifying (MotoGP, CSBK, WSBK, F1, MotoAmerica etc etc) knows how entertaining and exciting they are. I think this entertainment and excitement is something the EMRA could capture and use to create better turn outs for riders and spectators on practice days, as well as a new avenue for sponsorship. There are lots of fun twists and/or incentives we could add to the format to boost sponsorship and turn out. Who knows there might be a sponsor already lining up. I think it would be awesome to see the fastest riders organized and going out on track for one more fast session to see who can out run who.

    There are lots of ways to run this and it would probably be best for the 2021 Exec to hammer out the fine details. Keep it simple and easy to implement, like for now Superpole could start with a few basic rules like:
    -Superpole session will be the final session of the day. (Typically very few riders on track during the last rotation of sessions)
    -All riders in it must be registered in Dash for Cash and at least one other Superbike race.
    -Session open to the top 10 or 15 fastest riders in the current day qualifying time.
     
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  9. fast316

    fast316 EMRA Executive Member

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    I think one of the biggest problems this club faces is declining rider numbers we have had over the past couple years. Probably the biggest factor in that is the local economy. I'd rather not sit around and blame the government. Instead I'd rather focus on finding ways to put more, better, racing on for more people. We are a RACING club after all. I'm not talking about dividing already existing grids or subdividing classes, then handing out 10 more trophies at the end of the year. Our schedule and classes are a fine tuned machine that only needs small tweaks to stay ahead of the curve. Some of the changes proposed in posts above accomplish this and look very promising.

    One thing I'd love to see is a cross over class with the AMRA created. Easy to say, much harder to do, I know. But if we task the 2021 Exec with it I'm sure they can figure out a way and work with the AMRA. Which classes, which bikes? I dunno. But I'd like to start the dialogue and give the Exec direction.

    Second thing I would like to see is the creation (or maybe its recreation?) of an EMRA Endurance race. We are a RACING club so lets focus on putting on some more racing. With Stratotech back on the map, race fees and rental fees low as they have been in a long time, maybe its time to look into the economics of such a race once again. In the past the Endurance race was a ton of fun. Recently clubs like the UtahSBA have made format changes to their endurance race that resulted in much better turn outs and better competition. With no fixed schedule yet I know it is hard to start planning. But if we have a set of rules, format, and schedule created, we will be able to put on an endurance race that much faster.
     
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  10. Disco Duc

    Disco Duc Member

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    I would love to see an endurance race (series). I think it would be much more cost effective at Stratotech on a long weekend day, like a Monday, or even on a Friday evening.
    Castrol is much more expensive so, I guess a Friday night instead of a 'Track Attack' event would have to work??
     
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  11. Dangerboy

    Dangerboy New Member

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    Hello everyone at the EMRA,

    I've been pushing to have a class that overlaps between the AMRA and EMRA; Lightweight Superbike. I think the rules in this class should be left unmodified on the EMRA side, it is perfect just as it is, especially in regards to engine displacement rules. Running sportbike chassis/engine lightweight class bikes on the small kart tracks just doesn't make much sense, whereas custom built supermoto and GP lightweights that do not fit within sportbike rules but are still lightweight bikes are common at all mini racing clubs and are perfect for adapting to such a perfect "transition" class. Every GP bike that is raced in AMRA formula GP has already had a custom engine swap so this is already commonplace, I hope we can see growth in the EMRA LWSBK class in 2021 by getting a bunch of these bikes to Stratotech with engines well matched to be competitive in both clubs.
     
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  12. Snak

    Snak EMRA Executive Member

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    While on the world stage, yes the 600 class is dead. There has been very little development of these bikes in many years. At a club level there are basically 0 people building showroom new 600's. In that regard it is the cheap availability of used 600 bikes, all similarly spec'd, that makes the class competitive with some of the largest grids in the club.

    Any 636 4 cyl. bike is allready allowed in 600 class races. The 765/800/955 definitely do not fit with 600's. In that case I would argue that the GSX-R 750 is on the same playing field as them. There is simply no way that a 30hp discrepancy enhances the racing in the 600 class. In my opinion all it does is turn it into a $$$ war of who can afford the most cheater bike off the showroom floor. If that was the case obviously the production Triumph 765 Moto2 bike is a ringer to walk away with the class, should a skilled rider choose to acquire one.
     
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  13. 2quickrides

    2quickrides EMRA Executive Member

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    Dorna has the resources and ability to enforce the weight and power limits they will be placing on those bikes, a small club does not.
     
  14. Disco Duc

    Disco Duc Member

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    Dorna also has factory and fully funded teams that rely on winning to make money and get TV ratings. Small clubs just need more riders to pay entry fees and grow the sport/club.
    The more people we can get on track the better.
    I just want to grow the club and get guys with the 'Oddball' bikes a few extra classes to race.
     
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  15. Linda Moebes

    Linda Moebes New Member

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    Red Flag Procedure
    After this season of watching (too many) red flags go out, there are a couple of things that I’m concerned out. For starters, I think that we should be more consistent with our red flag procedure. By that I mean we should have the same procedure regardless of whether it’s a track day or a race day. It’s very confusing for the riders and the corner marshals, and I saw it cause problems this past season (i.e. riders stopping at a corner when they were meant to come off track, corner marshals yelling at riders to stop when they're not supposed to, etc.). Also, riders who only attend track days and then decide to race the next year may have gotten used to the current track day procedure and this will result in confusion for the rider in the event of a race day red flag procedure. The red flag procedure should also be consistent across all tracks, again to prevent confusion.

    Second, I have talked to exec members and the ambulance crew, and based on these discussions, I think the best procedure would be to have all riders stop at the next SAFE corner station. My reasoning for this is that it saves time and the ambulance is able to get out much sooner. I’m looking at this from the perspective of the downed rider. Sure, we might prevent some (often silly) accidents by having riders come off track, but that might mean waiting 1-2 minutes before the track is safe enough to release the ambulance, whereas having riders stop means I (as race control) can release the ambulance within seconds. Even at stratotech, it would often take upwards of a minute or more before the ambulance could go out, especially if there was a rider down in corner 9 because the track exit is right there, in contrast to several seconds when riders stopped at the next station. The longer the downed rider goes unattended, the worse off they are. I've heard that the track day procedure was implemented because in the past, there was some odd-ball situations where riders would slam on brakes and cause accidents or riders would line up across the track and block the path of other riders/the ambulance crew. Not once did I see that happen this year. I saw so many situations where bikes were in the middle of the track and riders had to swerve to avoid either a bike or a rider in order to exit the track for a track day red flag. These sorts of situations can be prevented in a multitude of ways, whereas you can't increase the speed at which riders leave the track as this would cause more problems and is less safe. Accidents can be prevented by (1) keeping the procedure consistent to prevent confusion and allow for more experience/practice, (2) increasing education on red flag procedures, and (3) increased advertisement of our procedures. All riders are subject to race school before getting their race license, so it would make sense to include an entire drill solely for red flags. Afterall, practice makes perfect. When it comes to track days, the first two sessions for novice riders are paced anyway, so a drill for red flags can be added in there as well. In terms of advertisement, the red flag procedure should be outlined everywhere where riders can see it (i.e. the waiver, Facebook, etc.), and should be included at the very beginning of all riders meetings, because this is the point at which the riders are most attentive. If potential accidents are a cause for concern for permanently implementing the race day red flag procedure, than these steps should be taken to prevent them, as the safety of not just the downed rider, but all other riders on track is of utmost importance. Riders should also be made to understand that seeing a red flag does not mean to slam on the breaks and stop at the next corner station. It means to slow down off the race line and stop at the next safe station. This again just comes down to educating the riders. Even if, for example, at stratotech a bike goes down in corner 9 and riders don't see the flag at the corner 8 flag station, there will still be significantly fewer riders who have to pass the rider than to have every single rider on track passing to get off track. For those concerned about tires cooling quickly, having the ambulance get on track sooner means the riders at stations can also come off track sooner, so in the end the time between going off track and putting on tire warmers and stopping for a short time and then going off track to put on tire warmers is not drastically different. This all comes down to race control and their ability to coordinate everything well.

    This was a rather long proposal, but this is something I have been thinking about passionately as I care a lot about the safety of the riders. I saw way too many problems with having riders exit track during the red flags, and there was hardly a day where I wasn't asked at least once what the procedure was. There are potentially things I missed, but the ambulance crew and myself are under the consensus that being more consistent and permanently implementing the race day red flag procedure is the best and safest option for everyone.
     
  16. DEFBOY35

    DEFBOY35 Well-Known Member

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    To the point Linda of being consistent with other tracks in regards to red flag procedures. I don’t recall any other track I have been to, either for racing or track days, that uses the stop on track procedure that we use here on race days. i do believe that several of those facilities the logistics allow that to be the case a little better. Some tracks the crash truck and or ambulance has already picked a bike/rider up during the race and had it back in the pits. We don’t really have that luxury though.

    And this is why it can’t be stressed enough how critical it is to listen during riders meetings at any event you go to.
     
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  17. 411ninja

    411ninja Member

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    [QUOTE="fast316, post: 21726, member: 231"
    Second thing I would like to see is the creation (or maybe its recreation?) of an EMRA Endurance race. We are a RACING club so lets focus on putting on some more racing. With Stratotech back on the map, race fees and rental fees low as they have been in a long time, maybe its time to look into the economics of such a race once again. In the past the Endurance race was a ton of fun. Recently clubs like the UtahSBA have made format changes to their endurance race that resulted in much better turn outs and better competition. With no fixed schedule yet I know it is hard to start planning. But if we have a set of rules, format, and schedule created, we will be able to put on an endurance race that much faster.[/QUOTE]
    This is a great idea!
     
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  18. 411ninja

    411ninja Member

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    It is really great to see how much thought you have put into this post. As racers we are lucky to have a race control dedicated to trying to improve safety. I think you have some good points and it is something to look into.
    Continuity is important, if a track rider becomes a racer, it is already ingrained in them what to do in the situation. That works out great for racers, but are track riders going to get it? A guy I respect told me - you always plan for the dumb guy not the smart guys. I don't know the answer. I think arguments can be made for both sides. It is an difficult situation with many variables.
    There is only one point that I disagree with. I don't think that the red flag drill should be an independent lesson. We currently incorporate the red flag drill into the day so students are not expecting it - like a raceday. It is the unexpectedness of the drill that gives it merit.
    As for the riders meetings I think they are ran well, and I would hope everyone from noobie to seasoned vet listens. Rather than moving the red flag instructions, what about repeating the red flag instructions when the new guys are being shown the paced session protocol? As for new racers I think Brad did a great job with the novices this year and it might be worthwhile working with him to just include it with his conversations with them.
    Thanks again for all your work!
     
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  19. Cbr600rider2

    Cbr600rider2 Member

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    Can we do something about consistency and knowledge on the black flag at stratotech, one day ur under and the wind blows east the next day ur over and the wind is blowing west. One lap your in a group u don't get flagged next your with one other person and u get flagged.
    a few championships were lost do to the * my belief * WRONG call last year. We see so much of the noise limits at area 27 and it depends on humidity and who ur with on the track whether you pass or fail. The people doing the noise testing last year * not mentioning any names as they are volunteers and I love the volunteers *** but they were not consistent and didn't give any lee-way during a race ( same bike same exhaust as the day before or even the race before) and then all of a sudden get black flagged for noise ? CHAMPIONSHIP AND SEASON RUINED



    2nd ......BEST RULE CHANGE SO FAR ***

    CAN WE PLEASE USE LESS BLACK FLAGS.... SPECIFICALLY ON NUMBER #2
     
  20. DEFBOY35

    DEFBOY35 Well-Known Member

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    Unless someone is able to come up with a way to measure that can cut out the variables such as wind etc. you won’t get much more consistent than how it was done this year from what I witnessed. Same location, altitude etc in relation to the track. Anyone in a group was pretty much ignored. It was only when a bike could be singled out for certain(for multiple laps) that I witnessed any bikes being called in. If you think you might be close. It’s your job as a rider to ensure that your bike meets the requirements. Ask for your reading. If it was close enough that other factors may have forced it over , then perhaps take the steps to ensure it won’t happen. Such as an insert etc. I’d be in top of that, especially if you are in the hunt for a championship.
     
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