2022 Rule Discussion

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations' started by DEFBOY35, Oct 24, 2021.

  1. DEFBOY35

    DEFBOY35 Well-Known Member

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    Shane C Fraser
    Hello everyone. It’s that time of year again! with the agm coming up on dec 11, it’s good to get some of the ideas and discussion for potential rule changes flowing ahead of time.
    mad always, please keep the discussions respectful and on point.
     
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  2. Dave86

    Dave86 Active Member

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    Posting this here rather than a letter directly to the exec as I feel this should be something the membership is aware of so it can be voted on at the AGM if necessary, or carried forward as something to be dealt with by the next voted in executive.

    In July, unfortunately I had an incident in corner 2 at Stratotech where I required treatment by the ambulance crew, then an ambulance transfer to AHS. For perspective on my condition.

    As I lay in ICU, being placed on life support for monitoring and into an induced coma (not posting this for sympathy or anything, just stating what type of serious position I was in), my husband was left calling all over the place trying to find out what hospital I had been taken to.

    Frankly, after a major brain injury (which I have three weeks of lost memory from) I was certainly not in a state to reach out myself, and this is where somebody should have stepped in from the EMRA executive.

    I had a Medical Data Carrier on my helmet with his contact information (phone number) as the rule book requires, and him listed as an emergency contact in MotorSportsReg (MSR) which is the registration system the EMRA uses.

    I know from past experience (being part of the EMRA Executive team that implemented that system) that anyone with an admin login to that system and permissions to view that information (so the President, timing tower, and anyone else given access to MSR) can look up that information from a laptop or from a phone.

    So this is where a failure in procedure occurred, either nobody looked up the information and called the emergency contact, or something similar occurred.

    What I’m proposing as a new rule or rule change if one exists is that the emergency contact MUST be contacted by an EMRA race official / executive member, in the event of an ambulance transfer.

    If the club isn’t contacting an emergency contact in the event of a crash and ambulance transfer, then frankly that defeats one of the purposes of requiring a Medical Data Carrier to be worn on every rider’s helmet, and the information to be to be entered at registration.

    I know that the EMRA may be concerning themselves with trying to keep an event running, potentially dealing with other injured riders, but calling an emergency contact must be made a priority and scheduled quickly by whoever can look up the information from the registration system or medical data carrier.

    I understand there may be concerns over upsetting that person, but anyone listed as an emergency contact or should be prepared to answer an urgent call about the status of the rider they are an emergency contact for. They should have the choice made available to them, to go to the hospital or not, depending on circumstances.

    If a call is not made to that person, they cannot make that decision.

    I feel this is a very important procedure to put in place, so that the right people are contacted in the event of a serious incident, and have the opportunity to respond depending on the severity.

    For the record, I am very grateful to Dee and Dee for handling me so well during the ambulance transfer, I count myself very lucky to still be here, and be able to speak my mind on this topic.
     
  3. Dave86

    Dave86 Active Member

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    Posting this in this thread as though it’s not really a rule change, it’s something that should be addressed by the executive team, and a message sent to one of them early this year was either not seen/read, or was not replied to.

    The EMRA domain - emra.ca should be transferred to a DNS host like Cloudflare to take advantage of their free https redirection that does NOT require the installation of SSL certificates - something that may or may not be possible depending on the version of the content management system for the main page, and the version of the forum software currently in place (both of which would have to be under consideration if a certificate was installed instead of using a provider like CloudFlare).

    Having made similar changes to other websites, this should be a very simple change for whoever is managing the website currently.

    From some quick searching, it does look like XenForo (the forum software) does support the proxy that CloudFlare uses, not sure what CMS the EMRA is using for the main website to check that.

    There is also no cost to this as CloudFlare offers a free service.

    Google and major search providers like it are requiring HTTPS for page ranking in search results, so this is an important consideration for anyone running searches for the EMRA or any related content, and it also shows a lock in the browser bar to show the site is protected / safe, or not:

    If the EMRA requires technical assistance in applying this, I can offer help as this is something I’ve done for people at work.
     

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  4. DEFBOY35

    DEFBOY35 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest. I don’t think this is even a case of putting in a rule. this is straight forward we need to make sure there is a protocol put in place to ensure that something like this doesn’t happen again. And making sure sure that it is followed through with so nobody is in that position ever again.
     
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  5. Dave86

    Dave86 Active Member

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    I just think putting this in the rule book might help ensure that the procedure continues to be reviewed and followed, even when there is turnover in the executive.
     
  6. Nevets

    Nevets EMRA Executive Member

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    I agree we should have a procedure for exec to follow when situations like this happen.

    I disagree that it should be in the rule book.
    The rule book is a document that spells out the rules that competitors need to follow when racing. It is not a procedural document for executive members to do their jobs.
    There is a strong case that such a document should exist, but I firmly believe that the rule book is not the correct place for that information.
     
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  7. Rodrigo

    Rodrigo New Member

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    Hi Dave....

    I hope you are recovering well.

    Sorry that this situation was made worse by misstep by exec and EMRA as a whole. I do know that, although it's not en excuse, that day/weekend seemed to be quite busy with a few folks needing medical attention.

    As others have noted... This should be an assigned role to an exec member and not a rule change/addition.

    That member has to have the ability to remain calm when talking to the emergency contact regardless of the situation. It is a big responsibility and a heavy one to shoulder... But it should definitely be appointed so that this situation doesn't repeat itself.

    Perhaps even something the Dee's could do if they wanted to or had time to do.
     
  8. Nadine

    Nadine New Member

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    Hi, Dave! First of all, we’re so happy that you’re slowly on the mend. There may be a couple of things that are missing from your position (I was in the ambulance with the crew) I had your phone with me while we were waiting for the AHS transport ambulance to arrive, to take you to the hospital, as I was planning on calling Cam. It rang in my hand, and our Doc chose to take the call so he could explain better than I could what had happened, and what the likely next steps would be. He explained that he suspected you would be transported to hospital ‘A’ based on your injuries. The transferring medic even confirmed that. Trev ended the call, and we performed the transfer. They wouldn’t tell us which hospital for sure they would be taking you to, it depended on what they saw of your risk while in transport. AHS transfer rarely tells us where they are taking the patient, and based on symptoms, it could change anyway. From here, you could blame me for not calling Cam again, but we had already reported all that we knew. If we had been given the opportunity to call after the transfer, we still would have given the same information, as that’s what we had been told at the time of transfer. The disconnect comes from AHS not communicating the destination, and they just don’t generally do that. Trev, the Dee’s and myself were occupied with prepping you for a transfer. I’m so sorry that Cam felt he’d been sent to the wrong hospital, I can’t imagine how frustrating and scary that must have been. For that, I am truly sorry. If we could have made it easier for him, we certainly would have.
     
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  9. fast316

    fast316 EMRA Executive Member

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    It is the job of the President or Vice President to contact emergency contacts, and has been as long as I have been involved with the club. There are exceptions to everything, for example in the case of a death the RCMP will take over that role. Typically an emergency contact is present at the track, and a protocol is rarely needed. In Dave's case, his was not. Also, in this case I (President) happened to be first on scene, I assisted the Dee's in corner 2 where Dave crashed. Dave was taken away. I did not want to take space or delay the ambulance in any way so I stayed on track as Dave was taken away. By the time I cleaned the corner and returned to the pits on my bike I learned the situation Nadine mentions above had already occurred. I then learned from the Vice President another EMRA Racer was in communication (before and during Dave's crash) with Dave's emergency contact; and more misinformation on Dave's location and condition was spread from that racer. By the time myself and VP learned of Dave's correct location and condition his emergency contact was already with him. Without placing any blame or pointing fingers, the situation played out in such a way that the ability to make first contact with an emergency contact was taken out of our control before we could do anything about it. Certainly a less than ideal chain of events.

    As Dave said I think the quick action taken by the Dee's saved his life. I think the club's decision to have two ambulances on site, safety meetings before events, skilled fast acting race control calling red flags when they do, and the hard quick work of corner workers and fellow exec like Shane on scene all played a role in saving Dave's life. In this case I do not think anyone involved acted with anything but the best intentions. Looking back, I think we should make it known to racers during riders meetings it is the responsibility of the President and VP to make first contact. I also think we should make it known that posting/spreading/volunteering personal information, no matter how well the intention, can lead to serious misinformation and cause more harm than good.
     
  10. Nadine

    Nadine New Member

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    You’re absolutely right, Jon. We do have protocols in place for events of this nature. With the ‘early’ information being given, things had to be dealt with on the fly, and were done to the best possible level by everyone involved. It wouldn’t hurt to review the protocols at the beginning of the season, for sure.
     
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  11. Cameron Veldkamp

    Cameron Veldkamp New Member

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    The morning of Friday, July 23rd I was at work when Dave’s incident was shared with me by an acquaintance at the track via Facebook messenger. “I don’t know if you heard but dave went down. Im not sure on details but he is being transported to hospital.” This person didn’t know where he’d be taken, but said they’d given his stuff to the ambulance.


    So I called Dave’s phone, unaware of his injuries at this point. I talked to Dr. Bernhardt on Dave’s phone and he told me Dave had crashed, he hit his head, and they’d be transforming him to the U of A rather than the local Fort Saskatchewan hospital.


    I was already on my way into Edmonton and headed to the U of A. When I arrived at the U of A screening checkpoint they didn’t have Dave as a patient and were unable to look up where he may be. I returned to the car and called the Fort Saskatchewan hospital, and the lady was able to lookup where Dave was. He was at the Royal Alexandra hospital - so I rushed over to the Alex.


    When I arrived at the Royal Alex emergency department they were able to confirm that Dave was there. They registered me as a visitor, and sat me in the family condolence room to wait for the Doctor. I sat alone in the condolence room for 15 minutes - waiting for a doctor with no information beyond Dave had hit his head. When the doctor arrived he had told me they did scans of both Dave’s torso and head. The results came back clear from his torso, but they awaited results on his head.


    I was able to then gown up (due to Covid restrictions) and go in to see Dave. At this point he was intubated and under anaesthesia as they closely monitored his condition. I stayed with Dave until they planned to move him into the ICU to continue his monitoring.


    My father and I used this time as they transferred Dave to pick up Dave’s things from the track. Again, thank you to Brian for helping dad and I hookup the trailer.


    When I returned to the hospital that evening Dave was settled into the ICU. The nurse expressed concerns of a doctor calling in asking for a medical update on Dave’s condition. I feel that this should only be communicated through the family - and something the representative of the EMRA could ask of the emergency contact as an ongoing contact.


    When I expressed my concerns to the club president in mid-August I got a non sympathetic response. To add insult to injury I was told - “In the vast majority of cases a significant other or emergency contact is at the track with the injured rider” which was of poor taste and hurtful. An implication that I should have been at the track that Friday as an emergency contact rather than being at work.


    The president said he did not have my contact information (which as Dave stated would be available on his phone through the registration system). He now claims that it’s the role of the President or Vice-President to contact emergency contacts - whereas he had told me in August that he had asked one of Dave’s friends to contact me. That friend was stuck calling other people trying to get ahold of my phone number; and in the heat of the moment she didn’t think of asking someone to look it up in the registration system. The president was under the belief that this individual had made contact with me, yet no follow up was made.


    Both Dave and I understand that what happened can not be fixed for us. But we both feel that the EMRA needs to do a better job to ensure this does not happen to other rider’s and their families in the future.


    I feel there should be a plan to notify one’s emergency contact immediately after a crash. Maybe a designated contact person, maybe a rotating position. The medics who are busy doing their job to provide support to the rider shouldn’t have that as their immediate responsibility.
     
  12. fast316

    fast316 EMRA Executive Member

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    I'm sorry you felt my reply was non sympathetic. That was not my intention. I ended our chat saying- I hope the information I gave gives you a better understanding of what went on. Take care of Dave and yourself, and thanks for reaching out. Stating "In the vast majority of cases a significant other or emergency contact is at the track with the injured rider" was made to point out the unique nature of this incident. I'm sorry that was taken by you to be hurtful.

    I do not have access to Emergency contact information through MSR (registration system). I was also on track riding and first on scene to Dave’s crash for approximately 25 minutes, I would not have had access to my cell phone for this length of time. This can be added to the responsibilities of President. When Dave was President he had access to MSR because he was also part of registration.

    Agreed, I think making it known to racers during riders meetings that it is the responsibility of the President and VP to make first contact. I also think we should make it known to racers that posting/spreading/volunteering personal information, no matter how well the intention, can lead to serious misinformation and cause more harm than good.
     
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  13. Cameron Veldkamp

    Cameron Veldkamp New Member

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    I do not feel this incident is unique due to the rider's emergency contact not being at the track. Do you know what percentage of rider's have their emergency contacts in attendance at all times when they are racing?

    You're stating that it is the responsibly of the president to contact the emergency contact. However - you have suggest you not have access to emergency contact information, you are away from your phone for at least 25 minutes, and you failed to do so on July 23rd?

    What if both the president and vice president are on track at the same time - and it takes them 25 minutes to get to their phone? I feel that the emergency contact needs to be notified sooner than that. If it's a developing situation the EMRA contact should be in continued contact with the emergency contact regarding the rider's care.
     
  14. Rodrigo

    Rodrigo New Member

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    Cameron, I understand you are frustrated at what happened. However, casting blame on one person or persons for a series of unfortunate events, is (in my opinion) not correct.

    This is a volunteer run organization. The exec and volunteers, and many other people do the best that they can. I have personally seen everyone stop what they were doing to help a fellow rider or family when an incident has occurred.

    What happened in this case, with the severity and subsequent hospital changes definitely increased the complexity of the situation. And I can't imagine the stress and frustration this must have created.

    I think it's unreasonable to expect that anyone is to be informed of every change as they happen, especially once a person is transferred to the care of AHS. At that point, it is out of the hands of anyone at the EMRA.

    Do we perhaps need a redundancy in place...as you said... What if Pres and V.Pres are both busy... Who calls in their place.

    Yes.... And I am sure the next EXEC will have this top of mind going into next year. Clearly there is an unintentional oversight that can be remedied so this doesn't happen again.
     
  15. SetUpSixRR

    SetUpSixRR EMRA Executive Member

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    Hey Cam I believe Jon and I, and everyone on the executive team would agree that this is something worth discussing at the next meeting and also the AGM with the membership. Even though we collectively thought our actions at the time were the best thing to do, given the rapidly changing and unpredictable circumstances, it can be better. It appears we should have a more clear process in place going forward to prevent similar situations, no matter how dynamic each incident can be.

    If possible, I’d love to see you both at the AGM and we can review the concerns again to formulate a plan. I’d especially love to see Dave again and I’ve been waiting for the green light to drive out to Vegreville for a visit.

    We will mark this down as an important talking point for the next exec meeting and the AGM.
     
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  16. Nadine

    Nadine New Member

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    To clarify for you, Cam, our doc is one of our racers who generously donates his skills if and when they are required. Again, I was the one who got Dave’s personal effects from the trailer, and was at the ambulance when you called. The call was taken by the doc while the transfer to the AHS ambulance was happening, and he passed the information that we were given on to you. We then told the exec that we had spoken with you.
    Please don’t underestimate the amount of care and concern over Dave’s condition, both during and following the incident. THAT is the reason that the doc took the time to follow up, as most of the paddock were pretty certain that thirty-plus people texting you for updates would not be welcome while you were dealing with the situation. I’m so sorry that you feel the incident wasn’t handled well, as I am one of the people who has voluntarily taken on the role of assisting when I rider is injured. None of this is related to anything the doc or the medics did, as they all did exactly what they were supposed to do, so the fault would be mine. Again, my deepest apologies for making a horrible situation even worse.

    EVERYONE in the paddock were concerned about Dave, as he’s loved and respected by all that know him. I understand your frustration at how initial events played out, but please keep in mind that it was a difficult situation for everyone involved. I am not trying to belittle your concerns, I’m simply trying to explain.

     
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  17. Dave86

    Dave86 Active Member

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    Okay, so recovering from a brain injury here, this thread is getting a little overwhelming, but I still feel like I need to address some points.

    I would also just like to state that I don’t believe it’s unfair for my husband to be highlighting behaviour that he saw as inappropriate. After all he was the emergency contact in place in this crash, and he should have been contacted appropriately. He should have been told which hospital to go too, and whom to contact if this were to change. The EMRA should be appointing a group of representatives who are provided with a script or similar in future cases where a emergency contact needs to be made. This is critical for any future incidents.

    To be clear, this rule change post was not brought up to place blame on the ambulance crew or Trevor, they did their jobs / tasks and took care of me to the best of their ability, so I could fight through this at the hospital when I ended up there.

    My concern is as a racer and former executive member, and not somebody who will be actively racing next year, I simply brought this up so that this can remedied by the 2022 executive, and come up with a procedure to be strictly followed by that team, to make sure the same thing does not re-occur.

    Yes, I understand that after a serious crash, executives are involved in directly dealing with that incident, however there is an entire team of executives, and if the person dealing with the crashed rider cannot call the emergency contact, this task MUST be delegated. Not *all* executive members are typically involved in dealing with a crash at the same time.

    If the hospital the rider is being taken to is not information they have available to executive member, maybe the EMRA need to discuss this with AHS (I have been told outside this thread from a contact with knowledge provided by a paramedic that because of the FOIP they cannot hand this information out). If they cannot get this information from the ambulance crew or AHS, the emergency contact MUST be told to contact hospitals themselves until they can find out where the rider is being taken.

    This is an important task that should be completed by an EMRA executive member, not casually handed off. I say this not because there are members that assist the club with tasks, but because something this important task should be handled by an executive member directly - following the pre-defined procedure, passing on all information required.

    Quite frankly, if the club is going to require each rider to buy and affix a medical data carrier to their helmet, and enter emergency contact information into the registration system, the club bears responsibility to provide relevant information after the event of a crash. After a severe crash, a rider should not be left all alone, without someone to advise doctors on any concerns.

    If the president cannot access emergency contacts in MSR (MotorSportsReg), that is a failure that needs to be addressed with their support, they can easily change your permissions in the system as a club president, to be able to access that information. If you are not aware of how to look up that information, they can train the executive member on it. Whether or not they are involved in registration, the club president needs to know how to use this system.

    Frankly, I don’t need the stress of this thread impacting my recovery, so debate can go on if it must, but this is likely my last statement here. I am simply trying to improve a process for the club and emergency contacts, for the future.

    Hopefully this thread can now go on as a rule change thread, and this matter can be discussed as thoroughly as necessary by the executive team and membership.
     
  18. fast316

    fast316 EMRA Executive Member

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    Not so much a rule change, but on the topic of improving safety anyway we can. I would like to see the EMRA incentivize racers to wear air bag systems. The effectiveness of airbags is without doubt. There mandatory use has been expanded by the FIM with the recent tragedies in Moto3 and 300WSS. The air bag systems acceptable for this incentive should meet the requirements set out by the FIM, found here:

    https://www.fim-moto.com/fileadmin/..._for_the_Grand_Prix_Airbag_2018_version_2.pdf

    The cost of this incentive will be offset by keeping riders safer and racing. I'd like to keep the incentive simple and easy to implement. My though is riders could get a 1 race discount code each round for wearing an air bag system. The list of discounted riders could be forwarded from registration to tech and checked during regular tech inspection.
     
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  19. Rodrigo

    Rodrigo New Member

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    100% would support this initiative. I know it can be "cost prohibitive" for some, but so is loosing your life. And I have seen folks buy $1k+++ upgrades for the bike but NOT buy an airbag?!!

    Yea... Make i propose they are made mandatory like many other organizations have already done.
     
  20. DEFBOY35

    DEFBOY35 Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s a pretty big ask to
    Make it mandatory. Incentives on the other hand will
    Hopefully make it worth while for people to get them as they need to replace their suits etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021

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