Race class solutions?

[teejay]

Are we able to revaluate race groupings? specifically int/exp sportbike, and int/exp superbike. with increasing numbers I think the upcoming rounds are going to become a little more difficult. We roughly had 30 guys on the track at a time.

Expert guys mid pack are grouped together making fast lap times difficult while the intermediate guys at the front have smooth sailing to catch these guys. And then there's the guys at the front of expert who have smooth sailing and catch the back of intermediate.

is there anyway we can revaluate some of the smaller groups, and try split the bigger groups up? especially with such a big novice group this season once promotions come class sizes are just going to get bigger.​

 

[Fireman]

Are we able to revaluate race groupings? specifically int/exp sportbike, and int/exp superbike. with increasing numbers I think the upcoming rounds are going to become a little more difficult. We roughly had 30 guys on the track at a time.

Expert guys mid pack are grouped together making fast lap times difficult while the intermediate guys at the front have smooth sailing to catch these guys. And then there's the guys at the front of expert who have smooth sailing and catch the back of intermediate.

is there anyway we can revaluate some of the smaller groups, and try split the bigger groups up? especially with such a big novice group this season once promotions come class sizes are just going to get bigger.​

The only solution with our schedule and time restraints is to start eliminating classes to make it so we can run each grid seperately.

Alternatively we could start doing mid season classification bumps to fast riders to allow them to race with the expert group. You and Shane interested in racing with the black numbers next round Justin?

 

[JDstealth]

Would the club consider starting exp and int grids at the same time rather than a delay, as some clubs do down south.

 

[yak]

Are we able to revaluate race groupings?​

The short answer is "yes". The changes are limited, but they can be reviewed. One change could be to balance the traffic situation for the Expert and Intermediate frontrunners by delaying the second start a bit longer. I'm interested in hearing other proposals (like JD's).

On a related note the health of the club is directly related to the number of active racers per weekend, so I for one am happy to see this "problem".

 

[Fireman]

The short answer is "yes". The changes are limited, but they can be reviewed. One change could be to balance the traffic situation for the Expert and Intermediate frontrunners by delaying the second start a bit longer. I'm interested in hearing other proposals (like JD's).

On a related note the health of the club is directly related to the number of active racers per weekend, so I for one am happy to see this "problem".

Unfortunately that means that the fastest riders then come into lap traffic sooner and there will be more lappers each race.

 

[yak]

Unfortunately that means that the fastest riders then come into lap traffic sooner and there will be more lappers each race.

As it stands the fastest riders of both classes encounter slower riders, but an expert lapping a slower intermediate is a much easier pass than a fast intermediate passing a slightly slower expert.

I was just thinking out loud that if the intermediates started 10 or 20 seconds later it would reduce the frontrunner intermediates work load. The debate is whether this would excessively increase the frontrunner expert work load.

 

[Fireman]

Your speed differential between the fastest expert and the slowest intermediate is larger and thus more unsafe.

That would make races more entertaining however. And the passes less friendly.

 

[teejay]

I agree starting intermediates later would only cause more grief to the experts, especially once promoted novice come into the mix. I also agree with yak that passing a lapped riders is a lot different than trying to pass an expert who is experienced and tends to have good lines. which brings up the point I had some pretty scary passes on the expert guys in order to keep up with the leader, had I not and got stuck for half a lap or more the leader would have been gone, or vise versa with the expert leaders if they get trapped behind lapped traffic that may just be enough time for second place to make up a ton of ground.

And Justin I may consider that offer, although I am pretty pumped for the guys in the intermediate classes, I can see a lot of great battles and close racing this season.

 

[Fireman]

For the qualifying classes we could grid all positions based on lap times and not based on class. All riders would then start together.

This would probably make for a nightmare in registration but would solve all of the intermediate issues and make less lappers for the experts.

 

[Ryno]

For the qualifying classes we could grid all positions based on lap times and not based on class. All riders would then start together.

This would probably make for a nightmare in registration but would solve all of the intermediate issues and make less lappers for the experts.

I like that idea, it seems to work in other clubs. My only concern is that part of the promotion process that the club has seemed to follow has been based on trust of that rider, that he doesn't ride like a been bag. The worry I have is that if you have a slower int rider that gets amazing starts because he does the friday night street legals every week and holds up people because his pace doesn't match his start, then this can lead to multiple faster riders making that less than friendly pass so not lose touch with the other riders in their class. I personally like the idea of mid season promotions and keeping the split grids.

Also I agree with Todd this is a great problem to have! Huge grids and very close lap times. There are a lot of possible solutions as well! Great weekend everyone

 

[S-african]

I remember racing amateur (Int) in CMRA at Race city. For our grids we would line up experts, miss one complete row and then line up amateurs. All would head off at the same time. Fast Amateurs (Tom Bodrovics) would mix it up with front experts within 1-2 laps, and it would still take front guys 8-9 laps to reach lapped racers. It gave the fast amateurs a chance to follow/race/learn from experts before the eventual bump in class.

 

[Cdw46]

Is there a lot of intermediates getting lapped as it is right now?

 

[WRrider]

Race classes

Why not just start the intermediates with the experts in one group? The more riders the more exciting. Lapping slower riders is just part of the sport.

 

[teejay]

If we were to start the grids at the same time, I would suggest longer races, maybe 12-15 laps. although the already 10 lap races are brutal and exhausting. the extra laps would allow those who truly are faster to finish where they should. for example if we did do this, we would potentially have grids 30-40 riders big. although that could make for some fun riding, it can also make for some frustrating riding. the first couple laps are gonna be either 2-3 bikes wide in a lot of areas allowing no passing, or bikes will be bike to bike the length of the straight and would really slow down the pace in my opinion.

 

[sand.man]

Mid season promotions means taking away championships, just thought I'd bring that up as it is important to many people at the end of the year.

 

[sand.man]

We have a hard time keeping on schedule as is, I don't think there's room to extend race duration... Plus I'm in miserable physical condition and don't want any of that, haha.

Let's shorten races instead... Less time to catch back markers, and I peter out around 5 laps at pace

 

[JDstealth]

For the qualifying classes we could grid all positions based on lap times and not based on class. All riders would then start together.

This would probably make for a nightmare in registration but would solve all of the intermediate issues and make less lappers for the experts.

This is the best idea yet, Just combine the grids and have a "Superbike" race and then score them separately.

Fast 25 already combines grids with Int and Expert, As far as I'm concerned we are all out on the same track anyways, dangerous riding doesn't just happen on non expert grids. Fact of the matter is putting slower riders infront of faster riders creates a dangerous situation, I'm sure there are people out there that felt that they could have kept up if they were not held up by a rider from the expert grid.

 

[sand.man]

Experts might start getting pissed off when intermediates interfere with their race because they want to keep up to guys with black numbers, it's great that there's some quick guys with red numbers but when two experts are battling for points and an intermediate sticks his nose in there and prevents a passing opportunity someone will be upset.

The discussion started because it was a problem that the classes were mingling, does putting everyone together really solve that?

 

[Fireman]

once again. With the time constraints that we have, there isn't the ability to run separate classes of intermediate and expert. That is unless the club would like to see classes axed to make room.

When I suggested the mid season bump, that was a little tongue in cheek. It would be unfair for a intermediate to move to expert mid season and take away a championship from them unless they put in a formal request to move up

Starting the grids 20 second (for example) later only means that there are more lappers for the faster experts. And to answer the question about amount of lappers, Ian and I would have passed 5 on sunday. I had another group of 3 in front about .5 seconds ahead of me.

So to focus the conversation I suggest that we look at the only 2 viable options in this conversation. Mixing the grids based on times (only viable for 3 classes). Or starting everyone at the same time.

Obviously we can also start everyone at the same time for classes like open Ss and 600ss plus do a mixed qualifying grid for superbike, 600 superbike, and fast 25.

As a fast intermediate consider this. The experts in front of you earned their place there. If you can run faster times than someone running black numbers, then maybe you should be racing against them. If that is not something you want to do this season, then our options are limited somewhat.

When promotions happen this year, I will suggest that we consider this issue so as not to have a similar problem in 2016.

Thank you all for your time and input on this. We will be having a very long exec meeting on Thursday night and I am sure this will be one of our main discussion points.

 

[teejay]

Could we make adjustments according to popularity? obviously this season has more riders which is awesome but i think popularity in some of the classes still may not be there? maybe we could group middle weights with 112 or something, separate each class by a line. If I'm not mistaken there were some class sizes with only 5 riders out there. I know that may not make up a whole lot of time but a suggestion. Also could Int open run with Int 600? with a delayed start? The top open guys are running slower pace than the top expert guys so chances of them running into traffic might be lower, and allows the 600 guys a larger gap, and maybe a bit less experienced guys to pass if we did run into traffic?