teach me some on race tyres

Discussion in 'Technical Forum' started by blam, May 20, 2016.

  1. blam

    blam Administrator

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    Brian Lam
    hey guys,

    I'm completely new to racing. did track days etc last year on Dunlop Q3s which worked amazingly for my pace and had really good longevity. plus the take offs can go on my street bike as the center strip has loads of life left.

    anyways they're coming up on the end of their life so I'm looking to get new tyres for Round 1

    I'm seeing Scott's race DOTs are 190/55 for med+ and 190/60 for the med and soft.

    how soft is a med+ compared to a street tyre?

    am i going to have to have my suspension set up differently to accomodate for a taller rear?

    i heard a few guys last year mention "red stripe" tyres would work well for me. what is the red stripe type?

    any tips/reccomendations would be great. thanks
     
  2. yak

    yak Well-Known Member

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    Todd
    Brian

    Since you were happy with the Q3s then that may be a good place to start. When they start to become the limiting factor in your lap times is when I would suggest moving to a pure race tire.

    I always measure new tires so I know what is happening to my ride height. Initially many bikes respond well to the increased rear height that often comes with the bigger rear tires. Just be aware how much you are changing things and note whether that improves the bikes handling (easier turn in, etc) or not.

    I have heard good things about the Pirelli red stripes which are basically a track day slick; i.e. longer life lower traction than a pure race tire. I don't know how they would compare to the Q3s.

    Regards
     
  3. blam

    blam Administrator

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    hey todd,

    thanks for the info. the Q3s are definitely not limiting me any time soon. I could probably drop another 5-10 seconds and still be good on them.... there are much faster guys running them at track days than me.
     
  4. Dionis B

    Dionis B New Member

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    I will leave you make your own decision at the end, and I am sure there can and will be a lot more expert help from this forum. and nothing against the other opinions, but honestly I would say. if you have done more than 3 track days and plan on coming back save yourself broken bones and plastics just buy some race tyres, after all you are racing... The Q'3 is an amazing tyre, it will do more than most of us can handle. But don't fool yourself when you say there is people doing super fast time on them. Most people that are able to make them go fast, are super fast guys that will do those time without making the tyre work very hard for them. Meaning carry a little more corner speed, get wicked drives out of the corner and do lots of braking straight up and down. I mean lots of the OnTrackPerformance Riding school instructor run those tyres and they fly on them, but like I say they know how far to push them. If you're learning Id say you need all the help you can get, that being said a slick, will be a lot more forgiving on situations. 80% of the grid you're racing with will run slicks. So youre just limiting yourself to a lesser of a tire. 2 things to watch for: when you start coming out corners following dudes that get on the gas, you'll wanna do the same, other than you'll end up on your ass. Or when you want to start trail braking and diving deeper and deeper into the corner the slick will tell you where about you need to be before its too late, with a Q'3 you'll be wishing you spend the extra 100 on a Real Dunlop slick.
     
  5. Dionis B

    Dionis B New Member

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    I ran Dunlop all last year, and absolutely loved them, found the Med+ was too hard for my liking, and specially on liter bikes they will give if youre throttle happy. Id recommend a set of medium slicks. You will love life.
     
  6. Spooner

    Spooner Active Member

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    Thanks for the thread start.

    I can say from my personal experiance, that the Q3 can get you to the 1.26-1.25 range on a bone stock bike. They are that good, and I can't say enough good things about those tires. They've also been the so labled as the "Offical OTP Instructor bike tire" for the past two seasons.

    Now to your points. The GPA Pro's are a full on race tire. They are a DOT standard, but I wouldn't recommend them at all for the steet. The sizes between all componds are only in the 190/60. I've yet to have install these tires onto any bike that they wouldn't fit. (Save for maybe adding a link to a chain to push the wheel base back.)

    The GPA's come in a 190/55 (for 600's) and 190/60 (for 1000's) These are again a race tire, but are now a couple seasons behind the GPA Pro's. These tires, I'd be more than comfortable using on your street bike for a race and then to the street.

    Last DOT's are the Q3. They come in almost any size you would want. 160's, 180's, 190's, 200's. As mentioned, I love these tires and use them on the Echo Cycle RSV4 Demo bike this season and the Honda Demo bike last season.

    The slicks, 165, or 200's. (I don't bring in the 190 slicks. If wante they'd be a special order) The Medium Plus(8477), is the technically the hardest slick tire. Made mostly for durability and works well in all temperature ranges. It's essentially the do it all, Dunlop slick tire. As metioned above, due to its carcass stiffness, it does speak to the riders the most. Dirt riders love the tire, lets you know in very good detail to where the edge is, similar to ripping around in the dirt. Riders such as Mike Yurko or Ian Wall use this tire as their go too.

    The Medium(7455) is in my opinion, is the tire you should be using at Castrol and most other tracks. The carcass is a touch softer, and the compound is softer still than the 8477. The issue thats been had with this tire is quite a a number of riders haven't set-up there suspension to suit the tire for the track. (As they came from Pirelli's the season before) Now this was also a huge issue the first year we rode at Castrol when I sold the Pirelli's as well. Once the suspension has been set-up (I recommend Vass Performance) I've had many people get great useage and life out of the tire. I was able to use the 7455 slick for 5 track days this spring in California and I'll use it again for round one's practice. Another note for the tire is, you have to use it with warmers. Goes without saying, but I've seen it more than I'd like. Lastly with the 7455 it is best used in at least +20c ambient temp and track temp of at least 35c. (If your ever wondering what the temps are, always feel free to come ask us at the Empire tents) This will be the tire that Justin Knapik, Jon Bullee, and many others will use this season.

    Finally, we get to the Soft(2662) slick. The cat's ass. This would be the best performing tire that we offer. With that said, if the suspension isn't 100% dailed in, it will only last 15-25 laps. The lap record at Castrol is done with the 2662 tire. Jordan Szoke. (and I know I'll be tring out this tire more than once this year as well. Haha)

    Now with all this said, there really isn't a bad tire out in the market anymore. You definitly do have your top two brands in the market, and in the end it comes to personal preference. I've sold both the top brands, and its hard to fault either one. Each have there pros and con's. Tires can become very personal, and some people (neither myself or Max) try to sell them as if the brand owes them something... The fact is, the tires you choose are the only piece of equipment between you and touching the ground in the wrong way. It's best to try things out and see what you like. Either way, I appreciate all sales that come through Empire Tyres.

    If you need/ want anyother info, please feel free to text, call or come see me at the track.

    ~Scott
     
  7. Spooner

    Spooner Active Member

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    I hope that all makes sense. Took me two stiff drinks of Knob Creek to finish, along with my ADD.

    ~S
     
  8. Cdw46

    Cdw46 Member

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    If u have tire warmers I would recommend a race tire. My personal opinion is no matter what your pace u will feel more confident which will make u faster. Weather it's a placebo affect I dunno but it worked for me when I started
     
  9. SetUpSixRR

    SetUpSixRR EMRA Executive Member

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    Are you trying to decide between compounds or are you willing to try other brands?

    There are lots of good points in this thread Brian, I'm going to give you my experience in a bit of a simplified form.

    Pirelli supercorsa dots were a great tire with tons of grip, they also work fantastic as a street tire as the softer carcus heats up easy and they always inspires confidence. The soft carcus they (at least they used to) have means that the tire absorbs a lot of forces going through the tire & into the suspension and then the bike. Feels nice to ride and tons of grip, I also found tuning my suspension on these was decent and the tire is very responsive to good/bad changes in your geometry. So it's easy to set up, in theory.

    The Michelin Pilot Power slicks I rode were a harder carcus tire, these have amazing grip for the first few laps and in a nice, progressive line they slowly lose their grip over the life of the tire. They felt like a good blend between the Pirellis and Dunlops I rode. Being that they have a harder carcus than I was used to, the first 2-3 sessions were scary as like Scott said a harder carcus will speak to you a lot more. I mean a LOT. Some guys won't like it, but as you get used to it I can see it becoming something you might prefer. I LOVE the extra feedback, again it takes some getting used to but you can feel everything the tire is doing beneath you. You learn how far you can push before you get close to beginning a slide etc.
    plus the Michelin slicks I ran have a V front which means it's very pointy, it was comfortable at full lean and it ripped into corners very easily and transferred from lefts to rights very nice.

    Dunlops I found were the farthest from Pirellis. I've always ran the GPA-Pros. I love the tires, they have a harder carcus than the Michelins and therefore you get even more feedback. Again some guys don't like that, and find it hard to get confidence and go fast on them. Darryl McGavigan ran Pirellis and when he tried Dunlops he hated them. Other guys (like myself) need that. They have a very predictable nature to them and when you're pushing the front or sliding the rear you will feel it long before it bites you in the ass. They suck on the street though, these tires need serious heat (like 45min on the warmers) so if you're running them on your street bike after be prepared for how shitty they are when they're cold.


    These are all from my personal experience, I've ran Pirelli Supercorsas, Michelin Slicks and Dunlop GPA-Pros.

    What I will definitely say about this whole deal is that I didn't do anything in my racing 'career' that taught me as much as trying new tire manufacturers.
    Going from Pirellis to Michelin was a mind blowing day of sensory overload. You will learn so much, so I encourage you to scope things out. I often sell good takeoffs because I remember wanting to try a new tire brand out, but didn't want to spend $400 on a set.


    This year I think I'll run Michelins on the BMW and Dunlop GPA-Pros on the CBR.

    Feel free to call me if you have any more questions
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  10. blam

    blam Administrator

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    Wow.... Information overload.... Lol

    Thanks for all the replies guys.

    I guess some points I left out

    A) I currently try run somewhere in the low 1:40s so I have a long way go. My only concern with slicks is not being able to put enough heat in them. Should I be worrying about this?
    B) I do have tire warmers
    C) I'd like a tire with a little bit of endurance
    D) being DOT is not a necessity. I rarely ride street so having a pile of take offs for my street bike is not really necessary.

    Scott, Brian, thanks for the help, I'll be bugging you guys in the near future.
     

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