upcoming 2012 changes

Planepower

Active Member
Just opening a thread to post about new / upcoming changes the membership may want to read about prior to the AGM. (mods; feel free to move to applicable section).
Ive heard there is class description changes in the air: please update.
 

sand.man

Well-Known Member
How about podium speeches for the first place finishers in the supermoto/lightweight/middleweight twins/sportsman races?

I know time is too restricted for 1/2/3 place in each class to have a moment, but what about just the winners?
 

fast316

EMRA Executive Member
How about move sportsman bikes to 5 years old instead of 10? Pretty simple change that would put wayyy more bikes on the grid.
 

Ryno

Active Member
I dont know if I like that idea of changing the sportsman age limits. The class is designed to be a place giving older bikes a place to race that have similar technology, if you change it too bikes that are only 5 years old, you are essentially eliminating the chance for guys on older bikes to do well, as a 2008 model bike is more powerful and lighter then say a 2001 model bike. Now of course there is amazing riders that can make any bike go fast (ian wall) but its just my opinion that I think keeping the rules the same(ten years or older) is the best way to keep the average racer competative and not making the bikes that have been competing in that class obsolete
 

YZF1000jon

Well-Known Member
Some other areas have enough turn out to have races for different periods. 88-97, 98-07, etc. not sure how this would work for us other than splitting things up into smaller groups with more trophies. Right now there's really only 5 riders contending the Sportsman class consistently.
 

Fireman

Well-Known Member
I dont know if I like that idea of changing the sportsman age limits. The class is designed to be a place giving older bikes a place to race that have similar technology, if you change it too bikes that are only 5 years old, you are essentially eliminating the chance for guys on older bikes to do well, as a 2008 model bike is more powerful and lighter then say a 2001 model bike. Now of course there is amazing riders that can make any bike go fast (ian wall) but its just my opinion that I think keeping the rules the same(ten years or older) is the best way to keep the average racer competative and not making the bikes that have been competing in that class obsolete

We saw a class like this in utah. It was a 5 year and older class. It was well stocked with bikes vs our regular 3-4 bikes on the grid. I feel this would be a good change.

As I see it now, we have too many specialty classes with 4 riders in them. Why not open it up so there is actually a race?
 

sand.man

Well-Known Member
Is there room on the Saturday schedule for an additional race?

If the sportsman grid expands to 15-20 bikes most capable of 1:00 lap times it won't be very safe to run with the few other classes in those races.
 

Ryno

Active Member
Don't get me wrong I am all for getting more bikes on the grid and making a actual race of things, but if the "sportsman" class gets open to bikes that are only 5 years old, arent we basically going to be eliminating the sportsman class and reproducing our open sportbike grids? I dont know the numbers but how many bikes are newer than 2008 models?(not being a smart ass but asking a real question). Down in Utah what was the average age of bike competing in the majority of classes? Was it newer equipment? Or on average the same stuff as being run up here?

With all that being said does that mean we are going to eliminate the vintage class from the rule book? Or the Womens class?( due to low bike turn out)

I'm good with what ever the club decides, all I was trying to say was that there are guys who have been running the sportsman class(some exclusively to that class) who do have older bikes or may not have the budget to buy a newer machine that may get left at the back of the pack making it not so much fun, and at the end of the day, as much as racing is fun, everyone likes the idea of being close to the front.

Just thoughts to add to the debate is all
 

Spooner

Active Member
As I see it now, we have too many specialty classes with 4 riders in them. Why not open it up so there is actually a race?
Cause everyone want to have a first place trophy...

I'm personally in favor of change. There are far to many classes and we more often than not, end up running behind schedule. Though to add to the issue, Id love to see a second superbike race.

My suggestion to do so, is to modify the Fast 25 to the Fast 30 or Superbike 1, but limit the grid to a max of 20 experts and 10 intermediates and add at least two more laps to the race. (So technically it would be a split race) With that, make the race a points race that would be combined with then the last race of the day, Superbike 2.

but thats just my thought...

~S
 

fast316

EMRA Executive Member
I'm pretty sure Middleweight twins, sportsman, and womens open never had more than 6 bikes on the grids last year. Supermotards biggest grids were during the double header 7 and 9 bikes, every other round there was 6 or less bikes on the grid. The lap times in the lightweight sportbike classes were 1:03-1:13ish. If sportsman was expanded to allow 5 year old bikes I don't think difference in lap times would be a safety risk.

I like the idea of two superbike races. If we combined the women's race with another race (like the middleweight twins/supermotard/formula gp/vintage race) that would free up enough space for a second ten lap superbike race. I know that goes against the train of thought for the womens race but the womens race is mostly likely losing 2 or 3 of it's top riders(Ali, Jo, Lorna). Which would make it pretty small grid next year.
 

JD96

Member
While it would be nice to see a bigger sportsman grid, I think 5 years is too new. as it stands it won't be long until I can race one of my zx10r's in it.
 

YZF1000jon

Well-Known Member
all I was trying to say was that there are guys who have been running the sportsman class(some exclusively to that class) who do have older bikes or may not have the budget to buy a newer machine that may get left at the back of the pack making it not so much fun

Awww, thanks for thinking about me!;)
I have more fun with close racing one way or the other, but agree 5 years isn't really "fair" to the bikes older than 10 years. There seems to be a technology break around 98-2000, do we stop it there?

Keeping Vintage on the books keeps it open if someone does ever want to race one, and it doesn't cost us any time during race day as they would grid up with Sportsman et al.
 

YZF1000jon

Well-Known Member
The lap times in the lightweight sportbike classes were 1:03-1:13ish. If sportsman was expanded to allow 5 year old bikes I don't think difference in lap times would be a safety risk.

I don't think the difference in speeds is a safety concern (hell I'd never be allowed in senior open if that was the case). I know a 5 year old bike is certainly capable of minutes and faster times, preeeetty sure I'll never get mine there. ever. Trying to keep the competitiveness in a class is what I thought the rule had in mind.
 

Ryno

Active Member
I don't think the difference in speeds is a safety concern (hell I'd never be allowed in senior open if that was the case). I know a 5 year old bike is certainly capable of minutes and faster times, preeeetty sure I'll never get mine there. ever. Trying to keep the competitiveness in a class is what I thought the rule had in mind.

That is more what I was trying to get at in a round about way. Most bikes 10 years and older arent going to be all that competative too a bike that is only 5 years old.

The sportsman class can also be viewed as a fairly economical class for a new racer to get into. Knowing that they wont have to spend alot of money too be competative and get onto the track. There may be guys out there on the street that want to turn their 2001 gsxr's or r6's into track bikes because the street resale is low and they come out and see that there is a class for just older bikes. Knowing full well that although there are things that can be done too those older bikes to make them go faster, they arent going to be going up against a 2007 600rr with full race ecu's and power commanders.

I dunno, I would just like to see classes out there availiable so that all ages of bikes can race against bikes of their same age and technology and not just see another open sport bike class where the older bikes are running at the back.


On another note, I think going to a double superbike format is a great idea
 

MyTTwin

Active Member
I'm personally in favor of change. There are far to many classes and we more often than not, end up running behind schedule. Though to add to the issue, Id love to see a second superbike race.

My suggestion to do so, is to modify the Fast 25 to the Fast 30 or Superbike 1, but limit the grid to a max of 20 experts and 10 intermediates and add at least two more laps to the race. (So technically it would be a split race) With that, make the race a points race that would be combined with then the last race of the day, Superbike 2.

but thats just my thought...

~S

I like the idea of a second Superbike race, and I wouldn't mind seeing the intermediate's (amateur) running with the expert (pro) grid. Most people running the Senior Open would probably agree it is there favorite class to run and I have to think it is because that grid averages over 20 riders for every race, which gives a much better opportunity for everyone to be chasing someone; regardless if they are expert or intermediate.
Even the 600 class could be combined to average about the same number of riders.
Each race could be points toward one championship in each class (inter. and expert) which would give 12 races for points rather than 6.
:) just a thought....


With all that being said does that mean we are going to eliminate the vintage class from the rule book? Or the Womens class?( due to low bike turn out)

When was the last time a "Vintage" bike ran a race in the EMRA?
 

Planepower

Active Member
Good topics to consider. I for one am in favor of a 2 heat superbike race, but let's keep int & expert apart (for trophies sake). I also think its a waste to run a race with 5 or less riders on the track. Combined classes work well in that respect. I'm thinking our classes may become bigger with CMRA members coming northward. There is also something to consider; how do we build a race weekend to accommodate another club (more than we've had in the past I'd imagine).
Keep the sportsman as 10 yr old equipment (not much has changed since 07 unless perhaps its a BMW lol). Heck, we could even up the age limit on senior open to 40+.
 

MyTTwin

Active Member
I for one am in favor of a 2 heat superbike race, but let's keep int & expert apart (for trophies sake).

Sorry if that was a little confusing, my suggestion intended for "trophies" to remain as intermediate and expert podium, just both running together...
 

Fireman

Well-Known Member
These are all great ideas. Now make sure to show up at the AGM and vote on them. This is your club, make your voice heard.
 

Planepower

Active Member
These are all great ideas. Now make sure to show up at the AGM and vote on them. This is your club, make your voice heard.

I brought this thread forth for ideas to culminate prior to the AGM. What else would we as members like to see happen?

1. Change status of intermediate / expert to Amateur / Pro.
2. Hold 2 heats of Superbike races.
3. Combine Amatuer / Pro grids for Superbike.
4. Change status of Sportsman to bikes 5 yrs or order.
5. Eliminate Vintage class.
6. In an attempt to have larger grids, eliminate classes with 5 or less racers. (or combine together to have a fuller track).
7. Requirement for 2010 Snell or similar helmet approval. Any other safety issues we could implement?
8. _________...
 
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Ryno

Active Member
I brought this thread forth for ideas to culminate prior to the AGM. What else would we as members like to see happen?

1. Change status of intermediate / expert to Amateur / Pro.
2. Hold 2 heats of Superbike races.
3. Combine Amatuer / Pro grids for Superbike.
4. Change status of Sportsman to bikes 5 yrs or order.
5. Eliminate Vintage class.
6. In an attempt to have larger grids, eliminate classes with 5 or less racers. (or combine together to have a fuller track).
7. Requirement for 2010 Snell or similar helmet approval. Any other safety issues we could implement?
8. _________...


I just wanted to clarify that I wasnt trying to say that we should bring the idea forward of eliminating the vintage class, I was simply trying to say that if we raise the age of sportsman we are essentially eliminating that class due to low numbers and turning it into another open sportbike grid. I used the vintage class and the womens open class of a example of other classes with low to zero numbers as a example, of classes that are low in numbers.

I do think that we should consider leaving things status quo for now in the sportsman class until we see how the calgary club coming up effects grid numbers and then possibly re evaluating the class format for the following season, just my two cents
 
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