2015 AGM Meeting Minutes

[411ninja]

Mike, I think you have the start of a great idea! My concerns would be: tracking the riders (and Mr. Ys) if the same person is not handling the paperwork every weekend and most importantly the added strain on our treasurer dealing with fines and refunds. I'd love to see more input from other members on this model so that we can find a solution.

 

[M87]

I had typed a longer response but I somehow got logged out...
Anyway:
1. I will make a full season schedule and publish it here, I will keep track of who volunteers and when.
2. 48 hours before an event I will generate an email and if necessary print it out with a list of who to expect.
3. I will email this to the Person in Charge (PIC) of setup and of tear down.
4. The PIC will check off each person who shows up. If they forget I will ask them "Did you see Racer Z?" and check it off myself. It should be pretty easy to remember, even the next day.
5. If someone not on the list shows up the PIC can have them write their name on the paper.
6. I will post on here who we should thank for volunteering that weekend after the event is over.
7.If you helped and don't see your name you will be responsible for contacting me. I will ask the PIC "Did you see Racer Q, he said he helped with setup?". Again I doubt it will be hard for them to remember.
8. I will amend the thank you and start to get ready for the next weekend.

 

[rambo]

I do understand the need for setup and teardown. But as someone who is from out of town I already spend more money for the 10hrs of driving I do per event. Extra time off work to help set up would be more money. I can consider one tear down but then I'm on the highway later at night in which after a long weekend of racing I'm not fond of (safety wise). Say another 100$ would suck but its the most intelligent way for me. I have seen other forms of racing add discounted race fees for the farther you drive that is not what I am asking for or getting at just for more consideration when it comes to us.

 

[Arctic Donkey]

Hmmm, discount for those with a long drive, can it be retroactive?

 

[Jason Henton]

If any racer who belongs to the EMRA does not fulfil his/her duties during the 2016 race season a $100 tariff would be added to their 2017 membership. Completion of an acceptable task during the 2017 race season would result in the tariff being returned to the racer on the next race date.

This seems biased. If racer A goes to every round and doesn't volunteer at all, hes out 17$ per race weekend. If racer B (who is most likely from out of town, and unlikely able to help out) only makes it to 2 rounds, hes out an extra $50 per weekend. In either case, you still need to fill the labor gap.

Completion of an acceptable task during the 2017 race season would result in the tariff being returned to the racer on the next race date.

So now the fee that was presumable imposed to pay for filling the labor gap is refunded, where would the refund/balance come from if the original fee was spent to hire someone?

 

[yak]

Re. member volunteering

My thoughts on fees/penalties is that what we really need is help and 'out-of-town' racers are at a disadvantage in volunteering at either end of what can already be a very long weekend.

I'd be happy to hear more input on balancing these competing points.

One thought I have would be to pick an arbitrary distance from Castrol to a racer's home and then exclude people outside of that circle. I am certain that if people from a further distance had the chance they would also pitch in when they could.

Regards,

Todd

 

[M87]

I am hoping that we never get to the point that someone will have to pay an extra $100.
And I don't believe we will.
I think what will happen is the majority of racers will make it out for one setup or take down because they want the club to be successful and they will see it as a way they can contribute to the clubs success. Like me, they are probably grateful for the long hours that some people are putting in to make this club work, and they will see that contributing an hour or two is not such a big sacrifice. In fact I think a few will actually do more than one because there is a core group who genuinely enjoys helping out the club.
Now there will be a few people who won't help out. And there are a lot of reasons for this to happen and I am not judging the validity of those reasons.
But I am thinking that if you face a tough drive to every race one of your buddies is going to have pity on you and fill your spot. And if they won't do it because they like you they might do it for a beer. And if they won't do it for a beer they'll do it for cash. And if they won't do it for cash...what did you do to piss these people off?
Now for the points that Jason brought up.
To my mind, having a race organization is the same as having a fire department. I don't like paying for it when I am not using it but when the occasion arises I sure am glad it's there. And in just like the fire department I can't just pay for it when I need it.
So I don't feel there is a bias towards people who do more races. We all have the same access to the club and if they don't come as often it's not the clubs fault.
Secondly the tariff would not be used to hire someone it would eventually go in to general revenue.
When fewer people show up to help it just means that those who are there work harder. For you and me.

 

[majikx]

Everyone just needs to suck it up and pitch in. I know that the drive from out of town sucks, trust me I hate the drive, especially at the end of a weekend. And ya last year sucked cause the races ran really late and made it even worse. However if everyone picks up a shift then this is a dead issue. If anyone doesn't pick up a shift your a little toad, and you should feel like $hit cause you make the rest of the racers work harder.

Even from out of town, ZBM was out and we did air fence and hay bales this year, did it suck? Yes. But the alternative sucks worse. Either we don't race or the club makes everyone's license an additional 100.00 or even possibly more so they can pay for this need.

Putting racers at the back of the grid is a $hit idea. People only seem to care when you take the dollar value to some thing. What we did with the CMRA in a few years we had issues, was to put a fully refundable 100.00 deposit on your license, and once you volunteer you get that back, or taken off your race fee's. I'm not sure how this would work, as there is X amount of racers and only Y amount of tasks.

Just a thought. this leaves it to the rider to actually make a decision whether to pay or to just forfeit his deposit.

The club would post up all rounds and all duties on a spreadsheet and riders could put their name in slots to help. once they help they get signed off. Simple, and if you cannot make something then our executive might be able in certain extreme circumstances to come up with a task for a guy or two.

 

[S-african]

I'm with Mike (and the rest of ZBM racing!)
Setup and tear down sucks, but we are complaining about a privilege. The privilege to go racing. These are club run events, with tight race budgets (EMRA and racers). As an out-of-towner I fully understand the extra drive and time this privilege requires. There are enough racers that if every racer picked up one shift (tear down or setup) this would become a non-issue. To come early or stay late on one weekend, to allow a full season of racing is not the biggest price. I know someone will complain (we are all good at that), but people need to take some responsibility and contribute.

I am all for making the list of duties with dates - and let people put down their names. Who knows, maybe this racing community has the list filled with people to spare and we can all celebrate the community we have created at Castrol/EMRA ..... or we can blame the NDP!

 

[Jason Henton]

Any suggestions on where we might hire people to do the setup/take down?
....
Secondly the tariff would not be used to hire someone it would eventually go in to general revenue.

Im confused, I thought the proposal was that the $100 fee would be used to fill the missing labor gap? Dumping it into general revenue doesn't seem like it would fulfill the need of getting the work done. Which is the issue, the work has to be done.

I am hoping that we never get to the point that someone will have to pay an extra $100.
And I don't believe we will.

Then why are we even discussing this? If everyone was "motivated" to help out already, then there wouldn't be an issue?

To my mind, having a race organization is the same as having a fire department. I don't like paying for it when I am not using it but when the occasion arises I sure am glad it's there. And in just like the fire department I can't just pay for it when I need it.
So I don't feel there is a bias towards people who do more races. We all have the same access to the club and if they don't come as often it's not the clubs fault.

We pay race fees on a pay per use agreement. I dont think it would be fair to say that everyone should pay one annual fee, irregardless of how many weekends they make it out for. Besides, a person who is racing 5-6 rounds a year has more opportunity to help. An alternative here would be to charge $20 per weekend. If someone from the WMRC or wherever comes out for 1 weekend, Can we expect them to be charged an extra $100? To me this is going to just push them away..

Everyone just needs to suck it up and pitch in. I know that the drive from out of town sucks, trust me I hate the drive, especially at the end of a weekend. And ya last year sucked cause the races ran really late and made it even worse. However if everyone picks up a shift then this is a dead issue. If anyone doesn't pick up a shift your a little toad, and you should feel like $hit cause you make the rest of the racers work harder.

And this is the issue I see.. We need manpower to setup and tear down. Yes, some people are little toads and don't help, others are simply incapable. The proposed fine system doesnt seem fair to the incapable ones. I remember seeing Rob from Hardnox drop a case of "pop" off for the guys helping, this is what a club should be.

The club would post up all rounds and all duties on a spreadsheet and riders could put their name in slots to help. once they help they get signed off. Simple, and if you cannot make something then our executive might be able in certain extreme circumstances to come up with a task for a guy or two.

Yes! A signup system or designated meeting place/time is a must. I managed to help with a few tear downs however, I couldn't tell you 5 hours before if I was going to be capable, just the way my life works.

Re. member volunteering
My thoughts on fees/penalties is that what we really need is help and 'out-of-town' racers are at a disadvantage in volunteering at either end of what can already be a very long weekend.

I agree, but its not just the out of town guys. Some people have obligations, if the $100 fee is less than a days wage, guys are not going to take a day off work, pull kids out of school, forget to sweep their grandmas deck or whatever to help. They already aren't. Then as mentioned, the rest of the guys are stuck picking up the slack. All this does is make it more expensive for a guy to come out and play. Oh, and piss everyone off in the process, cause now 3 guys had to spend an extra $100 and 7 guys had to cleanup instead of the 10 who were supposed to..

As an alternative idea, How about a raffle type system? Fund the prizes with either revenue from transponder rental, or a small race fee increase. Everyone starts the year with their mandatory volunteer time and a draw entry, skip out you lose your ticket. Volunteer 2 times? Get a bonus ticket. At the end of the season a raffle is held and (5-10?) guys receive stuff like a set of tires, or hand grips, maybe free transponder rental, track night or membership etc. (whatever funding can allow) This way we are rewarding people for helping, and not pushing away the people who cant, yet still dinging the people who wont.

 

[Jason Henton]

Even from out of town, ZBM was out and we did air fence and hay bales this year, did it suck? Yes. But the alternative sucks worse. Either we don't race or the club makes everyone's license an additional 100.00 or even possibly more so they can pay for this need.

As a side note, I have always enjoyed the time spent doing tear downs, even in the rain.. There is some good people at the club and its nice to chat bikes/race lines/etc. with them while doing the work. Its also a great way to look around the track, and really, its not hard work when there are enough people doing it. Also, a second trailer may help? Even a smaller one, It may speed things up to have 2 or 3 on the go..

 

[M87]

Jason you finally said something I agree with, you are confused. Let me see if I can help you there.
You have taken something from 2 different posts and put it together to look like it was part of the same one.
It was suggested that we hire someone to do the setup/tear down. I wondered if the person making the suggestion had an idea where to get the labour.
In a later post I suggested the $100, I never said what is was to be used for. At the AGM it was suggested that people who don't meet the commitment should be forced to the back of the grid. There were people who felt this was unfair, frankly I always start at the back of the grid so it wouldn't matter. I used the word tariff instead of fine because I thought it was more accurate, but it would really be a fine.
You ask "Why are we even discussing this?" because we are looking for ways to take some of the load off those who are always stuck with this job. (Like you from the sound of things) You appear to believe that just asking people to show up is enough to motivate them, maybe you're right. I just don't want to pay the price if you are wrong.
This year we got away with being a little slow tearing things down, in 2016 Castrol has promised we will not. As I understand it, if we are late clearing the track we start paying something like $2500 an hour. Suddenly it has become more important to ensure that we have enough people involved not just hope that we do.
As far as your point that we pay for each race separately, of course thats true, but we pay memberships by the year. An accountant would probably be able to tell you what the proper ratio is between fixed costs and those that are incurred per use but I feel that this has now become a fixed cost. And as such should be shared equally. You obviously disagree. I get that.
You seem stuck on the $100 paying to get the job done, it's not. It's to provide incentive to participate. The idea of having it not come into play until a year later makes it easier to dispense with if everyone helps out.
As far as the WMRC goes, that has nothing to do with this. The suggestion clearly states that this is for the members of this club. I don't know why you would even mention that.
You like lists, good, that is all this is really going to be, but we need to have a commitment from some people every race in order to be sure we will be able to get the job done.
I'll let the others address your comments to them but I really like the idea that in your later comments you are trying to be creative and are suggesting solutions.
I also appreciate that you did more than one tear down last year.
Thank you for making it out.
Seriously

 

[M87]

I guess I forgot to mention this but part of the reason I want the same commitment from every racer instead of having them vary is simple.
If we set a threshold of say three races then there might be people who would think "I've done two races and then missed two, if I show up at the next one I will HAVE to do a setup or face a fine."
I also think that if you get hurt and miss the rest of the season you should be excused.

 

[DEFBOY35]

I just want to throw it out there that the out of town members never seem to have an issue giving a hand with tear down when the help is needed
I know when I go to mission I do my best to help out with tear down. So I don't see any issue with it.
The part that sucks is when EVERYONE knows that there will be tear down at the end of the weekend and yet we still have to run around begging for help quite often so it can be done in a quick manner and let everyone get out at a normal time.
Would be great if people were just willing to take there turn no questions asked. But some would rather ignore the requests for help and drink beer.
Hell. I even had a puking caravan willing to help tear down corner 1 last year because others can't be bothered.

 

[teejay]

Maybe we could brainstorm some ideas on an incentive program VS a punishment program. not saying the set up or tear down should be seen as a punishment by any means but rather than giving someone a $100.00 fine if you will (just stating the number at hand) why not give riders the incentive to want to volunteer.

maybe we can get some local venders to donate some stuff, a hardnox day, EMRA track night, an OTP class, knee pucks, hats.

Obviously it may not be a viable option to give away these prizes to a number of people every round so how you would determine who gets what and when. Whether its a points system, or everyone who volunteers gets thrown into a draw I don't know.

 

[DEFBOY35]

It's unfortunate that the incentive of hey I did my part so that I could race isn't enough.

 

[Jason Henton]

I'll let the others address your comments to them but I really like the idea that in your later comments you are trying to be creative and are suggesting solutions.
I also appreciate that you did more than one tear down last year.
Thank you for making it out.
Seriously

No problem, I enjoy helping. I also am only voicing another perspective, so thank you for taking it as productive criticism instead of bashing. Overall I think we all understand that we need the work to be done. I can agree to disagree on method, I prefer a reward based vs fine/punishment. As teejay mentioned, brainstorming the pros and cons of both methods is a great idea. Overall both methods still leave 1 major concern, and that is if there is a lack of laborers for take down of an event, what do we do? Is it feasible to say that we divide up the fine between attending riders who didn't stay to help? Maybe even a combination of methods? People who do setup get a reward system, people who do take down avoid cost splitting of Castrols fines?