No Novice Cup/Series?

toybm

Member
As the title says, no Novice series? Sorry if this has been discussed before but I'm new to EMRA.

Maybe it could run per season (you would obviously have to be a novice). Racers would still have the option to move to Inter after 4 races but would not qualify for the series, racers also would not be eligible to run more that one season as a Novice.
 

the_fornicator

Active Member
No, sir. This will never be a thing predominantly because since Novice racers are generally new, we don't want to put anything on the line and just want them to concentrate on their races.

If you put a trophy or title in front of a novice, there might be the odd person that cares more about the trophy than someone else's safety.
 

toybm

Member
I could see this being a concern but on the same token, after just 4 races novices will have the same oopurtunity to care only about a trophy when moved into intermediate and expert races. I would think having 20 plus novices a year, many of which are over 10 seconds off the intermediate/ expert pace (me included) racing together may be more concerning.

A series may on the other hand encourage and keep new racers by having them compete with others closer to their skill level without the added pressure of racing and being gobbled up by much faster riders. i know this can be a learning tool, akin to jumping into the pool in a sink or swim scenerio, a scenerio I try to avoid.
Of course those who wish to or show promise after 4 races would still be eligible to move up.

I'm sure there are may arguments for and against but I just wanted to know if there was a reason there was none, as i've seen other associations do a Novice/Rookie Series.

Many thanks.
 

the_fornicator

Active Member
Good points all around. In some instances I do agree with you and a trophy would be cool, however, my limited experience is telling me otherwise.

I could see this being a concern but on the same token, after just 4 races novices will have the same oopurtunity to care only about a trophy when moved into intermediate and expert races.

Yes and no. If the exec feel that a person (Novice) does not possess the ability to move up to intermediate safely, then they would not receive an intermediate license.

i.e. just because you finish 4 races doesn't necessarily entitle a person to go to intermediate.

I would think having 20 plus novices a year, many of which are over 10 seconds off the intermediate/ expert pace (me included) racing together may be more concerning.

If racers are not confident in moving up to intermediate, they also have the option of remaining in Novice until they build up enough confidence/pace they deem sufficient to move up to intermediate. There's no mandate to move up (well, there's one but i'll explain below).

A series may on the other hand encourage and keep new racers by having them compete with others closer to their skill level without the added pressure of racing and being gobbled up by much faster riders. i know this can be a learning tool, akin to jumping into the pool in a sink or swim scenerio, a scenerio I try to avoid.

Of course those who wish to or show promise after 4 races would still be eligible to move up.

I'm sure there are may arguments for and against but I just wanted to know if there was a reason there was none, as i've seen other associations do a Novice/Rookie Series.

Many thanks.

Playing Devil's advocate, those that want to compete in Novice can do so by remaining in Novice. So, if someone wants to stay in Novice to get better, a trophy is a bit besides the point, right?

However, let's say we did enact a trophy and let's assume the fastest Novice stays in Novice for the rest of the race season. The fastest Novice right now is running about a 1:31.

The fastest novice now has a 30-second gap between some of the other novices. So, your shark tank situation that you want to avoid would still exist where people are getting their doors blown off. We would rather not have new racers (possibly someone in their first race ever) get their doors blown off.

Bottom line is that no trophy = no pressure. In the club's eyes, this is very safe and leaves the door open to first-time racers without the added pressure of having to prove themselves for a trophy.

The Formula 112 in Intermediate comes to mind if you want a really entertaining race. This is a race where any racer that logs a lap time faster than 1:28:2 during the race will be disqualified. This is where most intermediates learn to shed lap times as they are with like-racers with like-lap times.
 

SetUpSixRR

EMRA Executive Member
Bottom line is that no trophy = no pressure.

That sums it up perfectly in my eyes.

People move up to intermediate when they are ready, comfortable and have proven themselves to be safe and competent. It's just a stepping stone to intermediate where competition begins. Which also relates to why we use random gridding for novice races, everyone needs experience starting near the front and the back. You need to be comfortable making passes and getting passed in this sport.

Re: doors getting blown off-
You'll find the large speed differential in almost any class and license level. So that's a moot point in my opinion.

Also, we don't want to promote sandbaggers who stay in Novice just to earn a trophy.

And you mentioned other clubs do a series with trophies for novice/amateur. Well other clubs don't have 3 levels. Most other clubs are just amateur and pro. Which would be like out Intermediate & Expert. We have an extra class (novice) just to get people more ready for the deep end sink or swim situation of the intermediate class.

Does that help?
 

majikx

Active Member
Alot of organizations only have pro and novice.. no intermediate. And there is no trophies for novice there either. I think adding championships for novice is silly. It is every make and model of bike, it's not fair for a guy or girl on a 1000 to race guys or girls on a 300... If you want a trophy you need to work your but off, learn your craft and become a winning rider. And I also think once in intermediate, when you reach 108% of the fastest pro latime in your class you should be promoted to Pro. That's cut off for qualifying in most race organizations Just my 2cents
 

blam

Administrator
However, let's say we did enact a trophy and let's assume the fastest Novice stays in Novice for the rest of the race season. The fastest Novice right now is running about a 1:31.


The Formula 112 in Intermediate comes to mind if you want a really entertaining race. This is a race where any racer that logs a lap time faster than 1:28:2 during the race will be disqualified. This is where most intermediates learn to shed lap times as they are with like-racers with like-lap times.

I think people are still trying to "win" novice races and in my short time in novice this year, 3/4 races were cut short due to red flags. a trophy would definitely make this worse and nothing sucks more than seeing our fellow racers go down.

the real trophy for novice is a promotion to intermediate (dependent on ability and safety of course ;)) and thats what the novices should be striving for.

simply put, the LESS competitive novice is, the more seat time they will get and that will benefit them more than any trophy.

the F112 race was probably my favorite race as a new intermediate and i highly recommend the new intermediates run that one. I wish more guys did as I was pretty lonely at the back. even if you are the 6,7,8,9,10th in lap times, you may still podium due to DQs
 

Racin Jason

Member
Ya the novice class was never created with points or championships in mind.
It was a class designed for new racers to get their feet wet without the pressure of full on competition. You want a shot at a title, you will need to show you are a safe and competent rider. Then you can move up and give it a go.
 
Top