2014 EMRA Rule Changes

[Jason Henton]

I agree lever guards are a good idea, but maybe phasing them in over 2 years would help offset some of the cost increases that will be inevitable. Totally against mandatory volunteering, Its simply not fair to those who cant, and actually hurts the club if people are held up in novice class. Rewarding those who can, is always a good idea though. Maybe something like free gate entry for helping setup/tear down? Is there any way to volunteer during the day between sessions? Could the schedule be modified to allow for this? For example, having novice class first and last may open up free time for some people to do corner work.

 

[the_fornicator]

Why would you need 2 years to phase in a single brake lever guard when it costs like $70?

A tank of gas for your car costs more than that.

And you're looking at the mandatory volunteering in the wrong way. It's not like the club makes money off of them. It's to prevent the non-profit club from losing money. If nobody volunteers, then what? The club is left high and dry and it's especially not favorable at a place where track rental is significantly more.

If there's a lack of volunteers, then people will be bitching about that and how the track day is poorly run.

 

[Dave86]

The place I bought my lever guards from sells them for $40 each. Not a very significant cost IMO, for a very important piece of safety equipment, one that has been made mandatory in all top level racing organizations.
I have seen with my own eyes the consequences of a rider going down and being run over as a result of his brake lever being clipped off a race start. The result was a broken pelvis and some pretty serious internal injuries. All of which could have been prevented with a lever guard.
Two other riders were involved in the incident, and personally I wouldn't feel very good if others around me were involved in a crash because I didn't choose to run a lever guard.
It's the same idea as engine case covers. The cost is not huge in comparison to the money everybody is spending on racing, and it makes the sport safer for everybody. So why not make it mandatory?

As for volunteering, our club is actually in the minority by not requiring volunteer hours to move out of novice class. The WMRC does it, as does the UtahSBA.

We've had difficulty attracting volunteers in the past, we've had to increase the amount of track vouchers being offered in order to bring in more people. Being that Castrol themselves are not running track days for bikes, that is no longer going to be an option next year, so we have to look at alternatives, or we won't be able to run race weekends. Simple as that.

An alternative could be a volunteer "deposit" that everybody pays, that can be worked off by having a family member or friend volunteer, or if no volunteering is done then it goes to an air fence fund?

 

[the_fornicator]

Its simply not fair to those who cant, and actually hurts the club if people are held up in novice class.

You know what hurts a club? Not having volunteers to run a track day/race weekend.

 

[AleksV]

I agree lever guards are a good idea, but maybe phasing them in over 2 years would help offset some of the cost increases that will be inevitable. Totally against mandatory volunteering, Its simply not fair to those who cant, and actually hurts the club if people are held up in novice class. Rewarding those who can, is always a good idea though. Maybe something like free gate entry for helping setup/tear down? Is there any way to volunteer during the day between sessions? Could the schedule be modified to allow for this? For example, having novice class first and last may open up free time for some people to do corner work.

Lever guard is more than affordable. If you can afford to race, on the smallest budget, you can affors something that could potentially save you from many broken bones.
And I'm sure there is time to help out with fence as well.

 

[Jason Henton]

I am just pointing out that adding more costs on top of already increasing costs isn't a good thing. Woodcraft sells theirs for 110$ if you know where I can get one cheaper, I am looking at fitting one on and would appreciate saving some money

 

[Jason Henton]

Well I tend to disagree. If it were that easy then why is it (getting volunteers) already an issue?

 

[the_fornicator]

I am just pointing out that adding more costs on top of already increasing costs isn't a good thing. Woodcraft sells theirs for 110$ if you know where I can get one cheaper, I am looking at fitting one on and would appreciate saving some money

The club is at a juncture where creative thoughts and ideas are far more appreciated than what can be conceived as complaining and negativity -i.e. posts that don't add value to the problems at hand. I'm sure they're more than happy to hear about your suggestions or ideas to circumvent or resolve any problems, but complaining about a problem while providing no real solution to the problem doesn't help.

So, in lieu of my post that bitches about people bitching (ironic, eh?), check out www.the2wheels.com

Their levers are pazzo knock offs and people have been running them for quite some time with 0 issues. Their lever guards, from what I hear, are also pretty awesome.

 

[M87]

I took so long to write my first answer that I got logged off.
Go to the AMA website and look at what they define Superstock as.
It's pretty close to our Supersport and most bikes would qualify as long as you didn't swap pistons or do extra head work. OK there is some other stuff but there is wiggle room and the suspension mods are similar.
And you can't change your brakes sorry Blair.
They also let 636s run but with a 10 pound higher minimum weight. Let me tell you that if I only have a 10 pound weight disadvantage...
Anyway all other things being equal, which they aren't, the difference in power for 6% more displacement is about 4% give or take.
According to VP "The latest generation of our U4-based fuels, U4.4 makes up to 6% more power than pump gas across a wider range of applications than its predecessors. "
So just don't let 636s run race fuel.

 

[fast316]

I took so long to write my first answer that I got logged off.
Go to the AMA website and look at what they define Superstock as.
It's pretty close to our Supersport and most bikes would qualify as long as you didn't swap pistons or do extra head work. OK there is some other stuff but there is wiggle room and the suspension mods are similar.
And you can't change your brakes sorry Blair.
They also let 636s run but with a 10 pound higher minimum weight. Let me tell you that if I only have a 10 pound weight disadvantage...
Anyway all other things being equal, which they aren't, the difference in power for 6% more displacement is about 4% give or take.
According to VP "The latest generation of our U4-based fuels, U4.4 makes up to 6% more power than pump gas across a wider range of applications than its predecessors. "
So just don't let 636s run race fuel.

Agreed, Niel's 636 was super slow anyways. AMA also has a HP limit in the class, something the EMRA can't have since it doesn't have a dyno. I don't see a problem running a 636 in a 600 class, Kawi doesn't even make a 2013+ 600cc zx6r for Canada, and there are quite a few 636cc bikes running in the EMRA 600SS class already.

Another difference between a 600ss race and a 600 superbike race would be qualifying. 600 superbike race grids could be based off qualifying time, and 600ss could be based off points.

 

[Lehbs]

So someone has probably written something to the effect of this already, but seriously why not look at race classes similar to how things by large racing organizations such as AMA and Wera are. This way, when those who are traveling to race in the US (and based on the latest run to Utah, that list is growing) there is the simple knowledge of knowing which classes you will qualify down there as well. Honestly could be so simple.
Open sport - ex and am
Open SBK - ex and am
600 sport - ex and am
600 SBK - ex and am
Formula GP
Battle of the twins
And because they seem to love the carnage that ensues - senior open

This only is 11 races for the day (13 for two novice races I guess, this year there were 14 each round). we can add in other specialty classes if there is enough bikes to grid. and this doesnt account for multiple grids as we did at strato.
The EMRA is a great club, but it doesnt have to reinvent the wheel. These bigger organizations operate in a way that they can accomodate traveling racers to fit into classes, so in my mind it makes sense.

Also if we are going to make some saftey equipment mandatory like the brake guards, it would only make sense in my mind then we also adopt other measures that are widely becoming the norm such as shark fins.

 

[Goatse]

So someone has probably written something to the effect of this already, but seriously why not look at race classes similar to how things by large racing organizations such as AMA and Wera are. This way, when those who are traveling to race in the US (and based on the latest run to Utah, that list is growing) there is the simple knowledge of knowing which classes you will qualify down there as well. Honestly could be so simple.
Open sport - ex and am
Open SBK - ex and am
600 sport - ex and am
600 SBK - ex and am
Formula GP
Battle of the twins
And because they seem to love the carnage that ensues - senior open

This only is 11 races for the day (13 for two novice races I guess, this year there were 14 each round). we can add in other specialty classes if there is enough bikes to grid. and this doesnt account for multiple grids as we did at strato.
The EMRA is a great club, but it doesnt have to reinvent the wheel. These bigger organizations operate in a way that they can accomodate traveling racers to fit into classes, so in my mind it makes sense.

Also if we are going to make some saftey equipment mandatory like the brake guards, it would only make sense in my mind then we also adopt other measures that are widely becoming the norm such as shark fins.

This guy's got it.

 

[Dave86]

So someone has probably written something to the effect of this already, but seriously why not look at race classes similar to how things by large racing organizations such as AMA and Wera are. This way, when those who are traveling to race in the US (and based on the latest run to Utah, that list is growing) there is the simple knowledge of knowing which classes you will qualify down there as well. Honestly could be so simple.
Open sport - ex and am
Open SBK - ex and am
600 sport - ex and am
600 SBK - ex and am
Formula GP
Battle of the twins
And because they seem to love the carnage that ensues - senior open

This only is 11 races for the day (13 for two novice races I guess, this year there were 14 each round). we can add in other specialty classes if there is enough bikes to grid. and this doesnt account for multiple grids as we did at strato.
The EMRA is a great club, but it doesnt have to reinvent the wheel. These bigger organizations operate in a way that they can accomodate traveling racers to fit into classes, so in my mind it makes sense.

Also if we are going to make some saftey equipment mandatory like the brake guards, it would only make sense in my mind then we also adopt other measures that are widely becoming the norm such as shark fins.

Solid logic right here.

I also agree with making shark guards mandatory, I meant to bring that up earlier.

We once had a rider end up with their hand completely caught in the chain / swingarm after a highside in turn 9, a shard fin makes that very significantly less likely to happen.

Same idea with brake guards, they're making them mandatory in the AMA rule book, it only makes sense to require the same level of safety as the clubs that our racers are riding with down south.

We can argue about names later, but effectively the schedule would look something like this:

Senior Open
Novice Open Race 1
Formula GP, Middleweight Twins, 250 Cup, Women's Open
Intermediate Open Superstock
Expert Open Superstock
Formula Thunder / Battle of the Twins
Intermediate 600SS
Expert 600SS
Novice Race 2
Intermediate 600 Superbike
Expert 600 Superbike
Intermediate Open Superbike
Expert Open Superbike

That puts us at 13 races instead of the current 14, and if we still can't fit that in 1 day in the shorter schedule we'll have at Castrol, we could run one of the Novice races at the end of practice on Saturday like the CMRA has done in the past.

And effectively that leaves everyone with 2-3 races at least that they can enter, no?

 

[Goatse]

The EMRA doesn't own a dyno. So horsepower limits are tough.
Edit: Hey, Mike's post disappeared.

 

[Fireman]

So someone has probably written something to the effect of this already, but seriously why not look at race classes similar to how things by large racing organizations such as AMA and Wera are. This way, when those who are traveling to race in the US (and based on the latest run to Utah, that list is growing) there is the simple knowledge of knowing which classes you will qualify down there as well. Honestly could be so simple.
Open sport - ex and am
Open SBK - ex and am
600 sport - ex and am
600 SBK - ex and am
Formula GP
Battle of the twins
And because they seem to love the carnage that ensues - senior open

This only is 11 races for the day (13 for two novice races I guess, this year there were 14 each round). we can add in other specialty classes if there is enough bikes to grid. and this doesnt account for multiple grids as we did at strato.
The EMRA is a great club, but it doesnt have to reinvent the wheel. These bigger organizations operate in a way that they can accomodate traveling racers to fit into classes, so in my mind it makes sense.

Also if we are going to make some saftey equipment mandatory like the brake guards, it would only make sense in my mind then we also adopt other measures that are widely becoming the norm such as shark fins.

Homerun! This is the best post in the debate. Thank you.

 

[M87]

I like ideas that give me more chances to race against similar performing bikes.
Note that I said similar performance, not the same. I would much rather race Ryan and his Aprilia if we had similar lap times than a clone of my bike with a fat guy on it.
But there are a couple of things I don't like, well I don't like thousands of things but I will limit it to two on here.

1. Making a new class that excludes bikes we already own
2. Making a class without defining what it is

Why do we want a super stock class instead of the more open Super sport. Is any one out there getting beat by another 600 with a worse rider who has more HP? Or a better shock?
And what would make a super stock class.
Here is a link to a pdf I made of the AMA Super Stock rules.http://mikecormier.com/zx6rebuild/Stock%20Rules.pdf
BTW there are NO limits to HP in super stock and while my bike is not eligible for the class the reason has nothing to do with performance.

 

[Lehbs]

I like ideas that give me more chances to race against similar performing bikes.
Note that I said similar performance, not the same. I would much rather race Ryan and his Aprilia if we had similar lap times than a clone of my bike with a fat guy on it.

But there are a couple of things I don't like, well I don't like thousands of things but I will limit it to two on here.

1. Making a new class that excludes bikes we already own
2. Making a class without defining what it is

Why do we want a super stock class instead of the more open Super sport. Is any one out there getting beat by another 600 with a worse rider who has more HP? Or a better shock?
And what would make a super stock class.
Here is a link to a pdf I made of the AMA Super Stock rules.http://mikecormier.com/zx6rebuild/Stock Rules.pdf
BTW there are NO limits to HP in super stock and while my bike is not eligible for the class the reason has nothing to do with performance.

By your rational, why do we have an open sport and a open superbike race? They should just be combined. The problem is, that there are people on 600's getting beat by those on 1000's that likley wouldn't if they were on equal bikes, but because there is only one 600 race, we are forced to enter those other classes unless we only want to race once.

 

[AleksV]

So someone has probably written something to the effect of this already, but seriously why not look at race classes similar to how things by large racing organizations such as AMA and Wera are. This way, when those who are traveling to race in the US (and based on the latest run to Utah, that list is growing) there is the simple knowledge of knowing which classes you will qualify down there as well. Honestly could be so simple.
Open sport - ex and am
Open SBK - ex and am
600 sport - ex and am
600 SBK - ex and am
Formula GP
Battle of the twins
And because they seem to love the carnage that ensues - senior open

This only is 11 races for the day (13 for two novice races I guess, this year there were 14 each round). we can add in other specialty classes if there is enough bikes to grid. and this doesnt account for multiple grids as we did at strato.
The EMRA is a great club, but it doesnt have to reinvent the wheel. These bigger organizations operate in a way that they can accomodate traveling racers to fit into classes, so in my mind it makes sense.

Also if we are going to make some saftey equipment mandatory like the brake guards, it would only make sense in my mind then we also adopt other measures that are widely becoming the norm such as shark fins.

Great points. I agree with both hand guards and shark fins.
To fit the specific amount of races in a day, can we just decrease amount of laps per race? From what I hear, new track times will be in the 1:30 range, so 15 laps at strato at about 1:00 a lap would approximately take same amount of time as 10 laps at 1:30, no?

 

[Schramm]

Senior Open
Novice Open Race 1
Formula GP, Middleweight Twins, 250 Cup, Women's Open
Intermediate Open Superstock
Expert Open Superstock
Formula Thunder / Battle of the Twins
Intermediate 600SS
Expert 600SS
Novice Race 2
Intermediate 600 Superbike
Expert 600 Superbike
Intermediate Open Superbike
Expert Open Superbike

So Fast 25, Formula 105 are out? And that leaves less for the 650 guys, which there are a lot of, no?

And if this is what the schedule is, why not switch up the Open SS and 600SS, seems like a lot of 600 races all in a row there.

I say we just ban R6's, then every would be happier, right?

 

[Goatse]

Great points. I agree with both hand guards and shark fins.
To fit the specific amount of races in a day, can we just decrease amount of laps per race? From what I hear, new track times will be in the 1:30 range, so 15 laps at strato at about 1:00 a lap would approximately take same amount of time as 10 laps at 1:30, no?

Pretty sure there was going to be less laps per race regardless.