2013 Season Rule Changes

[sand.man]

My only concern Justin is that it's much easier to do laptimes near 1:03 on a 2003 600cc, than it is on an SV650 or a motard, and that race will be dominated by the sportsman riders. Lightweight and middleweight grids may suffer even more from this change.

I believe the lightweight and middleweight races are going to balloon next year thanks mainly to Blair's SV championship, I've heard of at least a few bikes being put together for that series and depending on their modifications they may choose to run it in the lightweight class.

 

[Fireman]

My only concern Justin is that it's much easier to do laptimes near 1:03 on a 2003 600cc, than it is on an SV650 or a motard, and that race will be dominated by the sportsman riders. Lightweight and middleweight grids may suffer even more from this change.

I believe the lightweight and middleweight races are going to balloon next year thanks mainly to Blair's SV championship, I've heard of at least a few bikes being put together for that series and depending on their modifications they may choose to run it in the lightweight class.

Please take a look at the results Ryan. The 1:03 rule is more in place to help the middleweight and motard riders. Nick, Doug, Trina etc are all running mid 1:03's as their fastest times. Middleweight riders will also have their own classes to run in and so will motards, thus giving them other races to enter as well. There will be no lack of racing or support for those riders.

Once again, Sportsman may not need to be included into this category. This is just a opportunity to present a idea on the public forum

If we keep excluding bikes and categories. We end up with what we have now. That is championship standings with 2-3 people in them. And that takes away from the sport.

 

[yak]

Justin

Does this create any new space in the schedule? I agree that having a bunch of empty classes doesn't do much for the club, I'm just wondering how this proposal affects the flow of the day since all the classes identified are on combined grids.

Regards,

Todd

 

[Fireman]

Justin

Does this create any new space in the schedule? I agree that having a bunch of empty classes doesn't do much for the club, I'm just wondering how this proposal affects the flow of the day since all the classes identified are on combined grids.

Regards,

Todd

With our current format of the day, the schedule would remain the same. There would be no conflicting races either Todd. I looked into that as well.

 

[Jason Henton]

My only concern Justin is that it's much easier to do laptimes near 1:03 on a 2003 600cc, than it is on an SV650 or a motard, and that race will be dominated by the sportsman riders.

I tend to agree with this, Its not fair to have a fast guy on a lightweight bike have to compete with a slow guy on a 120hp+ 600. Nothing wrong with them being on the track at the same time though. Lets them have the excitement of close racing, without being handicapped by the machine they are riding.

 

[Fireman]

I tend to agree with this, Its not fair to have a fast guy on a lightweight bike have to compete with a slow guy on a 120hp+ 600. Nothing wrong with them being on the track at the same time though. Lets them have the excitement of close racing, without being handicapped by the machine they are riding.

The fastest riders on the grid would be riders whom can do lap times of 1:03.00

The lightweight riders are doing very near that pace (please look at the results page)

So there should be no problem with runaway points. All we would be doing is scoring these races together in order to make a larger class. Right now we have some classes that we could fit the entire grid in a telephone booth.

 

[madmax]

Telephone booth? is that like a spot to store your cell phones?

 

[Fireman]

Telephone booth? is that like a spot to store your cell phones?

LOL yes it is.

 

[Miss T]

As someone that races the lightweight and middleweight classes, I think that the club cutting those classes is an injustice to the members and potential members. We need to encourage these classes more to achieve larger grids, rather than try to rid the club of them. In the past, contingency is paid for the Lightweight class... and on the double headers, we have fuller grids.

Cancelling these races is restricting the number of races these particular bikes are competitive. If the club elimiates these classes, the club will eliminate the interest for riders of these bikes.... so eventually everyone will be forced to compete on a 600 or 1000. Not everybike is competitive in the 600 and 1000 classes, and as a club, we should still keep the other classes alive..... Or maybe make it fair to everyones race class and merge every class of bike to one race for the day, lol.. (just making a point).

These classes have smaller grids in other clubs also, and are not cancelled. We are all on the grid at the same time anyways, so it's really no real benefit to anyone (other than the cost of the paper awards) by changing the classes. It seems that the people that want to make these changes are not the same people that race in these classes, unfair to those that do.

I definitely disagree with eliminating these races to merge them into a general race.

 

[DEFBOY35]

justin, i am curious as to two of the points you had made with the proposal of a new class.
1- say a person is a consistent 1:03 rider and the goal is always to improve , you go out and have your best race yet and break 1:02's, and now instead of winning that race you are now punished for doing the best you ever have by being disqualified? or would you just no longer qualify for future rounds? which would still eliminate you from any sort of championships.
2- now that the rider qualifies for the expert classes mentioned, ie. superbike, etc. based off the equipment for the proposed category, the rider just went from battling for potential championships at 1;02.9 to battling not getting lapped in superbike, etc

 

[Tattoo]

I myself run in these classes with my sv. Last season I showed up for one weekend and ended up with first place in Middle weight twins. Of course I was the only bike lol. So having someone to race against instead of just cutting laps would make it more fun. It would make it more fun for me if there was someone to race against instead of thinking in my head go ahead your not in my class. In lightweight I believe it was just myself and Ryan running that weekend. Least lightweight I had someone to follow which made it fun. At the end of the day, first last makes no diff aslong as its fun. I'll be at meeting tomorrow to listen to both sides.

 

[Fireman]

I think there may be a misunderstanding on my suggestion. It is not to take away any classes from any of the membership. It was to score these classes together. All of the riders competing in the mentioned classes are on the track, at the same time, racing one another. Racing for one trophy.

The classes would just be combined in a matter of scoring. This is a way of making a championship class of 12 vs 4 classes of 3.

It is just a suggestion. If the riders in these classes would prefer to keep the championship series limited to 3 riders, that is absolutely up to them. We can discuss it further tomorrow.

 

[Fireman]

justin, i am curious as to two of the points you had made with the proposal of a new class.
1- say a person is a consistent 1:03 rider and the goal is always to improve , you go out and have your best race yet and break 1:02's, and now instead of winning that race you are now punished for doing the best you ever have by being disqualified? or would you just no longer qualify for future rounds? which would still eliminate you from any sort of championships.
2- now that the rider qualifies for the expert classes mentioned, ie. superbike, etc. based off the equipment for the proposed category, the rider just went from battling for potential championships at 1;02.9 to battling not getting lapped in superbike, etc

The idea of the time limit is to find a way to keep riders who are on different types of bikes running the same lap times a way to compete and be scored against one another.

 

[Miss T]

I think there may be a misunderstanding on my suggestion. It is not to take away any classes from any of the membership. It was to score these classes together. All of the riders competing in the mentioned classes are on the track, at the same time, racing one another. Racing for one trophy.

The classes would just be combined in a matter of scoring. This is a way of making a championship class of 12 vs 4 classes of 3.

It is just a suggestion. If the riders in these classes would prefer to keep the championship series limited to 3 riders, that is absolutely up to them. We can discuss it further tomorrow.

No misunderstanding here.... Racing for one trophy as proposed, eliminates all contingency and such for the lightweight class, and I would rather not lose the lightweight class. I would rather run 3 classes of 4 riders in this particular case.

 

[DEFBOY35]

ok, that makes sense in that regard, i guess it would be a matter of what that cut off was set at.
really just playing advocate here, as it would really suck to be running the limit of the class the entire race, and pull off that 1:02.9 say on the last lap in some epic battle for the win and be dq'd for it.
or would say, an average of lap2 -10 be a better way of deciding a dq, based off of time. so as to not punish that last lap heroics, but if you ran the race consistent under that 1:03?

i agree, trying to make bigger grids to increase the competition levels is a good idea, as frank suggested, you dont quite get that same competitive drive if you know that isnt going to affect your standing.

 

[Miss T]

ok, that makes sense in that regard, i guess it would be a matter of what that cut off was set at.
really just playing advocate here, as it would really suck to be running the limit of the class the entire race, and pull off that 1:02.9 say on the last lap in some epic battle for the win and be dq'd for it.
or would say, an average of lap2 -10 be a better way of deciding a dq, based off of time. so as to not punish that last lap heroics, but if you ran the race consistent under that 1:03?

i agree, trying to make bigger grids to increase the competition levels is a good idea, as frank suggested, you dont quite get that same competitive drive if you know that isnt going to affect your standing.

then maybe you should race the class

 

[Miss T]

I just cant believe that the club would want to eliminate a contigency paying race. It makes no sense, and I for one, would not want to race the combine general race and lose out on the lightweight.

 

[Ryno]

I just cant believe that the club would want to eliminate a contigency paying race. It makes no sense, and I for one, would not want to race the combine general race and lose out on the lightweight.

This contingency paying race? Is that the SV cup?

 

[sand.man]

I understand both sides of the argument, I do want more competitors in my respectful classes (lightweight, supermoto) but I'll feel cheated if I go from racing for a championship against similar machines to racing for a mid-pack finish against much faster machines regardless of rider skill.

I'd go from having two races that I can be competitive in(LW AND SM), and one race that I'm just doing for track time (Formula Thunder) to two or three races I'll never podium or be competitive in.

The time restriction will only be so successful, right now the FASTEST guys in lightweight and supermotard run 1:03 and change on their BEST laps. There are maybe 2 or 3 that can do those times consistently on a Motard or SV - which are your primary non-sportsman bikes in those races.

The rest of us are lucky to hit between a 1:06 and 1:10 because we're not at that level yet, and I'm speaking about the intermediates racing against the experts. Myself, Adam Loewen, Mitchel Hachey, Frank Potiuk, Justin Heitt.

I'm not doing the best job of putting my thoughts on paper here, but bottom line I feel like the proposed change would hurt more than it helps for a couple reasons:

-Unfairly give the advantage to the sportsman bikes (an 03 liter bike would kill it)
-Possibly reduce the overall grid size, racing the slower bikes won't be fun anymore, people may lose interest.
-Take away from the variety our club has!

 

[Miss T]

This contingency paying race? Is that the SV cup?

It's the Lightweight Sportbike race... pays like the Middleweight 600 Sportbike, and Heavyweight Sportbike. It's just wrong to eliminate it.